Michael, Master Monster of Nasty Nagging N0Beasts 2005  :->}

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Message #23141 of 31848

Re: repeated question to living Kabir


Am Montag, 5. Dezember 2005 12:14 schrieb zora:

> Why is your web-site on n0by's group still closed and covered with mystical

> atmosphere of black cats guardians and keys,passwords?>:)



A drunkard tried to enter his house through the frontdoor,

which happened to be unlocked. He managed to fumble

his key into the keyhole, turned it and - BOOM - hit the

now closed door.


Mullah Nasredin walked by and saw what was happening.

He went over and said to the drunkard: "Let me help you."


"Oh, Satguru! Swami! My Master! Yes, please!"

The drunkard fell at Mullah's feet in gratitude and obidience.


So Mullah took a piece of chalk, painted an open door on the

wall and told his new disciple: "Take this door, that's open!

But be quick, it may close any moment!"


And he even pushed the drunkard forcibly towards the

"open" door.


WAMM!


"You have to be quickker, my friend." said the Mullah,

"see: it's open now. But it closes, when one approaches.

So be really quick."


And he helped the man to the other side of the street,

so that he may gain some speed, before running at the

open door again.


Badadadong!



"What are you doing?" I asked the Mullah.


"Helping him, getting sober" was the answer.


"But how should that HELP him? Look at him:

nose and forehead are bleeding, his trowsers

are torn. What should that become?"


To which Mullah Nasredin replied:


"Old meditation technique. That's a matter

beween master and disciple. Don't interfere."






Dear zora, did that answer your question?


Kabir



Mon Dec 5, 2005 1:05 pm

 

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Message #23140 of 31848

Re: What is Meditation?


Am Montag, 5. Dezember 2005 04:54 schrieb nanda:
> Beloved Surya ,
>
> I think you know very well about Yogi Vemana.

Obviously she/he does. And at least equally obvious
medidation (the state) is not about knowing.

Meeting friends, doing small talk: perfect.
Meditation: different dimension. Totally
different and astonishingly the same.
The same, the same, ... but the taste,
the smell, the action.

Fast natural action, yet no mover.

Meditation is there, meditator is not.

It can happen to everybody.
But nobody can do it.


Michael



Mon Dec 5, 2005 12:29 pm
 

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Message #23128 of 31848

[°-:)] Re: What is Meditation?


--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, prakki surya <dattapr2000@y...> wrote:
>
> Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami
...
> posted by: His servant
> at the lotus feet of shri datta swami
> www.universal-spirituality.org
>
> Kabir <michael@k...> wrote:
> ...


Some people talk with you and some talk at you,
but that is neither wrong nor right, it just boils
down to be a matter of taste.

I prefer to talk WITH somebody.

Instead of assembling and distributing spiritual wisdom of
others I was allways interested into "what is my reality?",
"what did I truly get?", "what is true for me?" etc.

Instead of sitting at the feet of a great holy master,
I'm sitting on my own ass and enjoying my own wholeness
(or the lack thereof). I wash my own feet (if ever).

The relation between a spiritual wisdom distributor and spiritual
wisdom is like the relation of a praemagnon man and a buddha:
one knows how to pull the other by the hair into his cavern.

My opinion, my taste.

And, Surya, please don't misuse my texts as a master copy for your
spiritual Xerox machine. Better don't quote me at all, baby, then
use me as an excuse to post your stuff. If the words are sooo
important and holy, why spoil them with a quote from me?

Hough! Thus snored caveman Ka.






Mon Dec 5, 2005 4:13 am
 

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Message #23126 of 31848

Re: Things that can be Clung to ... !!!


--- "hans_vandergugten" <hans_vandergugten@y...> wrote:
> With the need to develop disgust I have a problem.
> It appears to me as a unnecessary and in itself painfull
> extra.
>
> Do I miss something??

Oh Hans, has Readers Digest ever missed anything?

Quick questions, quick answers, here and there a joke or
a nice story. Everything easily digestible, easily stored and
retrieved on the internet.


Yes, I think you miss something.

How do I know?

We exchange words, ideas, thoughts, jokes, adresses, recipes
(need a good for plum pudding by the way). And feelings.
...f..e..e..l..i..n..g..s... feelings.

Actually for me they are not "your feelings" and "my feelings",
they are our feelings. I really mean: we are sharing the same stuff,
not similar stuff, but one and the same. Playing with different
tentacles of the beast, but the beast itself is not two.

Because our inner feeling-creating-device is made of the same essence,
that's why we share, that's what we share. Otherwise we wouldn't be
able to understand each other.


And this human at large, this Adam Kadmon, has a large and deep
surface layer of happyness, easyness, everything-goes,
readers-digest-is-your-friend, osho-is-my-master, sunshine-all-over,
enlightenment-now, love-for-all.

Deep below that there is a tough layer of resistance, steel
covered with foam plastic.

And below that are the painful things. The ugly ones, the real
ugly ones. The world misery, the original sin. The realm of
getting murdered and murdering, of getting misused and misusing.

And only below that is the stuff we are made of. The uncaused joy.
Nearly totally unreachable below all these layers and layers
and layers.


Yes, Hans, we miss something. And we all know, where it is.

Yet, only a few, very, very few, a tiny portion of manhood
is brave enough to go thru those fucking layers -
or is amiss enough to go for the missing.

Kabir's Digest, Dec 2005






Mon Dec 5, 2005 3:07 am

 

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Message #23125 of 31848

Re: Things that can be Clung to ... !!!


--- "Bhikkhu Anuvad" <bhikkhu.samahita@g...> wrote:
>
> Craving causes all Clinging causes Binding causes all Suffering!
> ...

This is not enough.

Old scriptures, old wisdom, old teachings are no longer spicy enough.
Our life has changed, we are no longer living a short, simple life
of daily hard work, most of us are no longer used to see the sun
rising.

We are living a more unnatural life, our social structure is
refined and stronger than 2000 or 200 or even 20 years ago.
Man as a whole has evolved - be it to the better or to the worse,
that's not the point.

Anuvad, repeating old scriptures is not enough.


Michael






Mon Dec 5, 2005 2:22 am
 

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Message #23124 of 31848

Re: What is Meditation?


--- ananda sunkanpally <aghorabhairav@y...> cited Osho as follows:

> MEDITATION
> Witnessing, the spirit of meditation.
>
> Meditation is adventure, the greatest adventure the human mind
> can undertake. Meditation is just to be, not doing anything-no
> action, no thought, no emotion. You just are and it is a sheer
> delight. From where does this delight come when you are doing
> anything? It comes from nowhere, or it comes from everywhere.
> It is uncaused, because existence is made of the stuff called joy.

What wonderful advertisement! Yet it's not a teaching.
Just imagine you saw some advertisement clips for a BMW and try
to learn driving a car with this information only. How many
automobile-movies does one need to watch to get a drivers licence?
All kinds of misunderstandings will accumulate in what is left of
your brain after 20 years of learning by advertisements.

Many of the former Osho-disciples have fallen into this trap -
they took his ad-lectures for a teaching. Yet is was sometimes
a teaching - for a few disciples, some hundreds perhaps. The rest,
the tenths of thousands just consumed one ad after the other.

And I call them "former" Osho disciples, because Osho is former.
The teacher has allready gone, but they are still "his" disciples?
The very word "disciple" comes from "learning", if it came from
advertisements it would be called "adciple".

But that's the current situation in Sannyas circles:
adciples try to teach each other.


Such texts need to be interpreted by a living buddha.
The misunderstandings of the listeners need to be corrected.
The individual language needs to be used to reach the listener
on a level of deeper understanding. The individual learning blocks
need to be taken into account. And so on, and so forth...

All this is only possible in a dialogue between trainer and learner.
A monologue lecture, a book, a tape, a video can be of additional
help, but cannot replace personal face-to-face interactions.


Just look at the many Sannyasins, who mix-up "meditation"
with "technique", who think, they "can do" it.

My god, or just take the first sentence which Osho uttered in this
lecture: "Meditation is [...] the greatest adventure the human
mind can undertake." This is spiritual advertisement, entertaining
smalltalk, it cannot be used for a teaching.

The mind cannot undertake meditation.

All meditation-techniques are intended to teach that by experience,
are constructed in such a way, that the mind is finally giving up
to try to do it.


> "When you are not doing anything at all - a bodily, mentally,
> on no level when all activity has ceased and you simply are,
> just being, that's what meditation is."

That means: meditating and meditation are mutually exclusive.



> "You cannot do it, you cannot practice it, you have only
> to understand it."

Then why so many and so different meditation-techniques?
What is there to understand?

Here comes the block, the resistance. And because of this resistance
the years and years of meditation exercises are needed.

The block is pride. Arrogance. Socially acquired stupidity.
Neurotic avoidance of the feelings of helplessness, and and and ...

What is to learn, what is there to understand? Simple:

You are immensely stupid, greedy and stubborn,
if you try to do it.

And the work is not to "meditate", but to watch your resistance,
your blocks, your pride. Especially nowadays the pride to be
a "meditator", a "sannyasin", a "seeker", a "nobody".


That's my experience.
And: I happened to experience meditation,
don't get me wrong on that.

Michael







Mon Dec 5, 2005 1:51 am
 

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Message #22547 of 31848

Re: [°-:)] Re: [°-:)] Re: Men and Mice, Zen and Zapp


> as a matter-of-fact, who is cosmic?

his @man

--

Kaci - I Will Learn To Love Again


Did you recognize ?

We don't have separate feelings.
human is one.



Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:09 pm
 

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Message #22546 of 31848

Men and Mice, Order and Chaos


Am Montag, 14. November 2005 16:21 pedantic_jeeva wrote:
> Dear Kabir,
>
> In my understanding when Anna says "So what are we? According to
> Michael, that is?" means According to Michael that is still under
> search/questioning stage/not known.( I request Anna to clarify the
> issue)

Yes, absolutely yes. Is one email enough or do you need
a signed copy for the archives?

> But your response is too philosophical and redundant
> than necessary

Yes, I also observed that after Annas reply. So I asked myself:

"Hey @man, you did it again!"
"did what?"
"Made me talk to one person and aimed at another one at the same time!"
<smile>
"For whom was this long posting meant?"
"Dunno;) Just let's wait and see who answers..."

> and shows your attitude of judging a person too quickly
> just by few words.

Yeah. I do that. And most of the time I'm wrong, imagine.
But that's spicing up the soup of life, isn't it?
And by the way, when I used to take more, much more
time to judge, I was even wrong more often.

So what do you suggest? Ask you before jumping to a
conclusion? He? Please consider my age: I'm probably
not living long enough.


say: you read my post, you even called it philosophical.
Was it written for you?

> IMHO after getting clarification you could have
> commented more.

Yes. Or less. Or changing the topic. Or trying something
totally different.

Have you ever observed yourself? I mean: really?
Unbiased? For example watching yourself doing
something which you really don't want to do?
Detached and unbiased and without fighting?
And then recognized, that this way everything
went more smoothly than usually?
Never? Did you look close enough?

For me this happens to happen nearly allways.
At the moment.
Is that a bad sign? Does this happening happens to
be a bad sign? And if so, does it have any signification,
I mean: is the cosmos follwing the signs? You know,
a cosmos going down a oneway street in the opposite
direction, that wouldn't be the proper role model for the
little child cosmen, would it? Everything would end in chaos.
Or did it begin that way? Let me think. ... think ... think ...
ok, got it. The answer is ... , no not 42! The answer is: yes.

You wouldn't do such things, right?
I mean driving the cosmos on the wrong lane?
Doing something, which little comsic baby doesn't
want to do?

Are you sure?

Don't get angry at me - you asked for it.
I just try to share the experience ...
... the experience of a mind, which has given up.

Like it? No - I'm not asking your mind,
I'm asking you: would you like being crazy?

Answer honestly.
Don't smile.
A smile would tell it.

> Love,
> Jeeva

Structure.
Michael

--

Radio IO Ambient
http://radioio.com - channel ambient
- or other channels -
I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor, Valerie.



Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:48 pm
 

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Message #22544 of 31848

Re: [°-:)] Re: Man and Mice


Am Montag, 14. November 2005 16:06 schrieb cosmic_jeeva:
> can you please share the experience...

Ever had an orgasm? Can you please share the experience?
... ???
Oooohhh! ... What? ... What are you doing? ... My God ...
stop that! ... That's my ... OH! ... STOP! ... NO!

> Love,
> Jeeva

Same, same
Michael



Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:50 pm
 

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Message #22539 of 31848

Men and Mice, Zen and Zapp


Am Montag, 14. November 2005 12:13 schrieb Anna Ruiz:
> Good morning Michael,
>
> So what are we? According to Michael, that is?
> Thank you.for your answer.
>
> Ana

Good morning Anna,

your question is neither of clean thought nor attitude.

Either you ask me - then it is timid to relativize my answer
- even before having heard it - with a phrase like
"According to ...". Such phrases are used by the thinker
to protect itself from too intense feelings and experiences.

On the other hand: if it was really your standpoint, that I can
only express my truth (which I happen to agree to), then
consequently you would only seek your truth. And then it would
be inappropriate to ask somebody else.

So either you ask somebody else - then wait for her/his answer
without a chattering, classifying mind in advance.

Or you go for your own - then be happy about such impolite
answers as mine, which throw you back at yourself. For my
truth is it, that any effort into knowing oneself is worth the
pain of getting frustrated, and that frustration is the
neccessary byproduct of love and awareness. Neccessary.

But what happened was, that you had chosen to write a posting,
which was just half of each alternative, just half-n-half.
Which is a sure sign, that your posting came out of your thinker,
'cause the thinker can never decide which alternative to chose.
Thinking is not meant to decide ANYTHING - that not it's function.


Now you even have something to put into your box labelled
"According to Michael". .o) ...I'm surprised...

Yet, I would label the box "For Anna" :) 'cause my mind
is doing what the heart wants it to do.

Greetings
Michael



Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:39 pm
 

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Message #22537 of 31848

Man and Mice


Kartar mentioned:

> A dog thinks:
> ... They must be Gods!
>
> A cat thinks:
> ... I must be a God!

My God! Some humans did not only think they are God, but said it loud and
clear in public - for which they were crucified, burned, drowned and larded
with arrows in earlier times, while the modern human society is more
civilized and uses electro shock, tranquilizers and verbal/emotional brain
wash to achieve better results. Hence God decided to give 7 lives to those of
us who are "cats", but that proved just to be some drops on a hot stone.

Then there is the majority of human dogs - allways in search of a master,
kings, gurus or gods to worship. Of course that has also improved
dramatically; kings have been replaced by politicians, politicians by
celebrities, gurus by headshrinks.

Real improvement had to wait, until the modern homo esotericus entered the
stage. Avoiding the old offending words "seeker" or even "disciple" we now
see 0the dawn of consciousness in "meditator", "non-dualist" and "free mind".
We have put ourselves into the Guru's chair - at least we think, we are Gurus.
Some even believe, that they are "free journalists", as if a prisoner would
become free by exchanging the chalk with which he marks the passing days on
the walls of his prison with a typewriter.

The past is still there: the search for god or the claim to have found him/her
- just two sides of the same coin. Liberation, Moksha, Enlightenment,
Non-Duality, Freedom, Friednship, Love. Doesn't matter much, wether one
goes for a personalized god or an impersonal value - it's allways the person
who is going. A lot of energy goes into all of that, not seldom a whole life
is invested to become free, eternally happy, peaceful, highly valued, loved
and recocknized. Why? Well, obviously that's what the person is missing in
reality.

I'm so fed up with all this talk about God, holy states, higher consciousness,
I just cannot tell you how much. Instead of using what we have we go shopping.

What immense amount of pain and misery must be there in one's own life,
if one tries to forget his/her self by talking/thinking/writing about God.

But you cannot get rid of God, when you neglect your self.
Yet - the way to yourself leads away from everything society
has implanted into us. Hence we would be alone.
And dogs hate to be alone. While cats and gods love it to be alone;
when they happen to meet they just say "hello" to each other and
then they move on, each minding its own business.

Only now and then - if it really loves you - a cat will try to help you
enter into cat-consciousness. So for a short time, it forgets how stupid
humans are (or the cat is simply overwhelmed by love and compassion)
and starts to play your guru - e.g. by bringing you a freshly caught mouse
to play with - a beginners exercise so to say.

But naturally we fail.

And continue thinking/talking/writing/imagining
about becoming a real cat/human/man/woman.
Instead of looking at what we are.


Michael



Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:58 am
 

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Message #22524 of 31848

Re: [°-:)] So lala


Am Montag, 14. November 2005 01:06 schrieb Hans van der Gugten:
> [about project Gutenberg]
> It's a German Projekt.
> Sehr Gruendlich :-)

Absolut! You can be happy that you are not here.

> (http://www.uscj.org/shabbat/orange%20black.jpg)
>
> It's an illustration from the Shabbat Campaign Home Page where they give
> 14 steps (Not in hierarchical order) for improving your saturday, I mean
> of course 7 & 7 STEPS TO ENRICHING SHABBAT

My feeling: it should only be one symbol. The second one is just a digital
copy. Copying is ugly. Probably the picture is meant to be a reminder,
resembling a hebrew letter or syllable. So the mind came in and wanted a
symbol. Urgs.

Just the colors and the single symbol - on a canvas of half the width -
that would make a Zen - Europe - Middle-East mixture of more emotional
impact than this one. What do you think?

Greetz



Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:31 am
 

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Message #22521 of 31848

Re: [°-:)] Re: [°-:)] Greetings


Am Sonntag, 13. November 2005 20:56 schrieb v:
> yeah i do, kabir!
> welcome! :-)
> how are you doing?
> in Germany, right?

Yea, Munich is getting cold. Late autumn weather,
no frost yet, but all the leaves down and when you walk,
you like to keep the hands in the pockets. The birds
have been here very early this autumn (with or without
bird flu); I expect a long and cold winter in Europe
(for our taste of course).

> (alaska here)

Which part was it? Some time ago I read about a woman
winning the Iditarod. Dee Dee Johnrowe.
http://www.cabelasiditarod.com/images/mushers/musher_jonrowed_05.jpg
I think I told that allready in this list. But never mind.

Have you ever been a Musher? If so, how is it?


Kabir



Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:01 pm

 

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Message #22520 of 31848

Re: [°-:)] )] Re: [°-:)] Greetings / Mediocre Monster molests mysterious Masters


Am Sonntag, 13. November 2005 20:24 schrieb hans_vandergugten:
> Hi Michael, how are you doing?

So lala.

> I myself feel very non-advaita at the moment.
> Got interested in Plotinus recently.

What's that? A dead philosopher?

> ...

Aha, project Gutenberg.
You are busy the next 20000 years.

When we've lost all internet connectivity,
we still can call you. Great idea!

Remermber Fahrenheid whatever-the-number-was?
In the end every person knew one book by heart.
They must have been mental dwarfs compared to you:
you know the whole internet inside out.

May joy accompany your steps.



Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:45 pm

 

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Message #22519 of 31848

Re: [°-:)] DO NONDUALISTS EXIST?


Am Sonntag, 13. November 2005 20:19 schrieb Rasa Von Werder:
> DO NONDUALISTS EXIST?

Who cares? And why should that be more important than - say -

ARE NONDUALISTS EVER HAPPY?

> Rasa Von Werder
> November 12, 2005
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TastingSugar/

> I have had the (honor and priviledge?) of knowing three 'nondualists.'
> The verbal mind games and psychological warfare they wage could be
> the battle of the century.

Sure enough, babe, but who battled back, if not you?

You fight.

That's not a judgement, but an observation.
You even fight so called non-dual people.
I don't think, that those three people did or are
doing anything bad to you, from the beginning
you had been the one who went to them and not
vice versa, or not?

And now you are even advertising some group of
your own taste - Tasting Sugar. What kind of sugar
should that be? Fighting Sugar?

So in a way you want to be the one, to whom others
should go for help, for advice, for non-non-dual advice.

But why? Just one system of ideas is fighting the other.
They are not even very unique - one is the mere opposite,
just the denial of the other. One idea fighting the other?
What did you smoke?

Identifying with your dualistic thinking - and it's totally natural
for thinking to be dualistic - you fight non-duality (wether it's
just non-dual thinking or anything else in those three people you
mentioned, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure, that anything
entering your system is going to be interpreted, going
to be transformed into thinking, going to be assimilated by
your system of thoughts).

Instead of using the opportunity to have a glimpse of somebody
else' thinking, instead of saying "whow! That's also possible to think!",
instead of broadening your vision and making your mind more fluent
and mobile, you cling to your old pattern and fight.

So in a way you only fight yourself.
Attraction creates fear. Fear fights attraction.

"I fight, hence I am!"

But what would remain, if this fight stops?
Fear? What would remain if this fear vanishes?
Aloneness? Who would have a word for that,
if being REALLY alone?

- plop -

The pond you are in is not just a keg and it's content
is not milk. Thousands of years of fighting will not
produce butter.

Tears do not turn into butter, if you fight them.

Dunno how many years you have invested into seeking,
judging from your anger it must have been tenths of years.

And now, like many others, your wishes have turned sour
in you, and you decided "OK, there is nothing to get, I got it".

No, babe, not at all. Just admit it: you simply didn't get it.
The whole setup was not meant for you to get it.
The spiritual setup is allways constructed (openly or hidden),
to take something away from us.
Nature doesn't meant us to win.
Duality/Ego was just an experiment, a method
to add experiential flavor to life.

And look what we managed to achieve:

We managed to loose ourselves !!!!
We even managed to fight ourselves !!!
What wonder!!
Yahoo!


Now the game is over.
Nature ./. Ego 10:1

The fighting and seeking, the masters and teaching,
all this "getting it", all this "impossibilties before, after
and instead of breakfast" - game is over.

One even has to use the modern internet technology
just to find a handful of idiots who still run after the ball
and try to convince others to join them in this game,
which is allready lost.


I like sugar and milk in my tea and coffee, but not in my mind.
A sane mind has to know it's limits.

Greetings
from Kabir



Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:34 pm
 

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Message #22510 of 31848

Echo?


Dear echo, what was this?
My message to the group replied
by whom - your email-robot?
Did you setup your computer to forward
emails originating from me directly to
the group - hmmm?

Or am I all of a sudden duplicated -
only because I traveled your whole universe
and came back to the place of original sin,
I am two by now? Strange. Allways thought
left and right would be exchanged, but to
see myself again...

On the other hand, might be a great idea,
the ultimate orgasm maker: to be able to
scratch my back wherever I feel like. :)

Perhaps, if I turn back and travel around
your universe twice in the oposite direction,
I might vanish totally? Or come out as 8-fold?
Or 8-fooled? Or zero-body? No more weight
problems, just eat as much as you want and then
leave to n0by-group under the right angle.
Whow!

Only one tiny problem remains:
Please, can the moderator stop my mirror-image
from talking? Or would that be against free speech?


BTW.
"free speech" - I allways wanted to know what that
would be. Switch of the brain before starting
and then sign all your letters as "Dr. No(body)" ?
Or jumping down the Empire State and holding a (fast
and short) speach. Or being free and then speak
about it (but that might spoil it, doesn't it?).
Or doing an IQ-free speech?

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
But by entering this free speech list, I even doubled,
i.e. are now having only half as much freedom as before.
My God! Hence this "free" speech list might be similiar
to the "free" world or the "free" will - quite the opposite of
creating freedom (if viewed from a certain, which I agree may
be called "perverted" angle).

Shit.

Ka






Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:23 pm
 

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Message #22507 of 31848

Greetings


I just dropped by, dunno for how long.
Anybody want a talk with me? ;)

Ka






Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:32 pm
 

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Message #19386 of 31849

Re: On the end of the path



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, Caminamos <caminamosnet@y...> wrote:
> On the end of the path nobody will ask us what we
> studied, where we went, what business we did. We will
> only be asked for the Love we gave.

Split brain arguing.

First of all why should there be a path?
Only human maps are full of streets and paths
and borders. Only human mindes think and speak
about goals, targets, paths, beginnings and ends.

And then there is the vision of someone asking,
what ahs been done earlier. Self-importance wants
to be asked, derive from the past a future is
imagined in which the former negative expereience
turn into something better, greater, more shining...

The same ill mind then speaks about Love (with
a capital L, which traditionally means the divine,
non-egoistical love), as if it owns it, can give it
- or for that matter could withhold it either.

Urgs.


Caminamos, I wish you to experience not the end
of the path, but the end of your spiritually
poisoned mind. Perhaps a good start into that
direction might be to end this game of yours
to pretend to be a teacher? Sooner or later
your life will end anyway, why not enjoy the
last years without the burning greed to be
acknowledged by those stupid so called seekers?
And especially the ones in the n0by group are
the most stupid of those bunch IMO.




Michael






Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:11 am


 

back

Message #19297 of 31849

How do you want to be loved?



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, v <beatha@a...> wrote:
> how come nobody has told me lately what a wuss i am?
> Shit! Jest cos mama DIED...
>
> hans, i love you too!
> valerie


What an invitation - I had to look up "wuss"
in the dictionary.

Some years ago I started wondering about what I
thought might "being loved" is for me. Is it
that the other says certain words, makes specific
gestures? When I was young, it was clear: love
meant fuck and fuck meant love. But after having
fucked enough (and enough without being in love too
probably), this question arouse: how would I
determine it? What would I feel, if? I mean:
my personal, original feeling of being loved -
what was it? Where was it, in the stomach,
in the shoulders? I couldn't tell.

Being loved was no feeling, was no experience.
It's nice, no question. Yet essentially it's
something indirect. Basically it's an idea,
at best an observation of other peoples feelings.
Great, I'm being loved, loved, loved <dance>
<steppedy-step> <jump> <grin> <kissing-the-milkman>
An Hollywood movie with Fred Astair and Marilyn.

But the movie changed for me: the Marx Brothers
took over, and I began wondering (I am that
philosophical type, you know, I allways identify
with Groucho) what loving means to me. I had not
been thinking about it for often (far less than
about wether and how I would be loved), loving
was pretty seldom in fact. But when it was there,
there was no question. Whooosh - Boommm!
Or silently tipptoeing thru my breast when I take
in air. Or the feeling as if i expand and my ears
become antennae for the energies around and are
waving hello to the angels (and devils) in the
neigbourhood. I'm having rather large ears. .o)

A little later - and still some years ago - a girl
friend took the hassle to teach me, that the ability
to love can be trained. Like a muscle. The heart
can be trained. And the training is simple: stick
to my feelings, even if the other (or all of the others)
don't support it. Especially if they don't support it.
And again, and again, and again. Loving without reward.
Loving without being loved. Well, not easy - but simple.

"i love you too!" is cheap, it's a bargain, a commodity
exchanged. And it's easy also over the distance of some
thousand miles. I you said that after having lived with
Hans in his small boat, in a single room - that would be
something different. You want to exchange a hug, and
the other says "Don't you dare touch me!". You say
"Good Morning!" and the other says "Stop that sliming!".
And you keep on holding to your love, or feelings of
inadequacy, or feelings of lonelyness, or whatever.
You just follow your heart.

Most of us avoid such an "heart-training", don't we? .o)

So, Valerie, perhaps they have not told you,
what wuss you are, because they are it themselves,
too?


Kabir

Hans, you need not search, here they are:
http://www.marx-brothers.org/






Wed Apr 6, 2005 9:39 am
 

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Message #19222 of 31849

Re:_Veet_and_not_veet?=



Hans tried with Kabir:

> You can't know anything, of course, when you are delivered
> up to the tao and make it your trademark.

To which the Tao in form of lovely Helga (looking over
my shoulders and wanting me to join them for breakfast)
replied:

piss off


> Yet you seem to feel imprisoned in this freedom.

So what? Who is the prisoner and who is the wall?


> Almost every statement you make on others, has an embedded
> positioning statement on yourself in it.

I'll do my best to make that "almost" into 100%.

> (Are you aware of that? I know that you don't communicate,
> yet, can't help myself for trying).

You call provocation communication. That's in tune
with this list, but I wonder if anyone in normal
life is tolerating that for long.


> My internal frame of reference says: this guy always has a point,
> (I have a habit to always look where you point), yet
> a lot of your messages have a undercurrent with the
> lukewarm heat of cold water.
> ...

Talking, thinking, reading, writing will not change anything.
Even provocation will reach only somewhere with people
who are ready to get provoked. Hans, that's perhaps
why you felt so good with people like Shapiro: they can't
be provoked into reaction, because they act from within.
But that is totally different to defending oneself against
being upset, although on the outside it may look similiar.

One quietude is the absensense of walls,
the other comes when the walls are soo thick,
that even a slegde-hammer knock will not
be heard inside.


> My external frame of reference makes me search for a
> written example, that kind of expresses what I feel.

Great sentence! Profound! Wise! Exceptional!
Anyone ready to translate it back to normal speech?


> Some people shout louder and louder (implying a
> external frame of reference in their audience),
> the shouting coming from desperation.
>
> You recognize?

Yes, I'm not THAT deaf, I hear you.


Kabir

--

Some walls have stones made of
knowing and grout of pride.








Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:44 am
 

back

Message #19210 of 31849

Re:_Veet_and_not_veet?=



--- "Muthu" aked me:
> which place are you going to?

How should I know thet?






Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:10 am
 

back

Message #19206 of 31849

Re: [°-:)] Hi Valerie,



Hi again, Valerie,

> wouldn't you rather meet a nice sunny Avon lady in a dark alley?

Thank God, that I learned my lesson about those ladies which
I would like to meet (or who like to meet me), in contrast
to those relationship where Tao likes us to meet. A contrast
invisible to the eye...

> ... all the same passing gases. behind them lies the bliss
> of *knowing* that all is transitory, all is ridiculous,
> all is sublime. at least for me. expressions of ego -
> like anger. or hysteria - can take place wherever
> one takes a mind to express it how!

And the place between one feeling, one thought and the next -
is it also transitory?






Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:17 am
 

back

Message #19199 of 31849

Re: Veet and not veet



--- In "veetthomas" wrote:
>
> Hi Kabir,
>
> you know it - and I know it.
> So what ?


Knowing? Oh my God! That old pitfall
and hide-out for lame camels!


Man, you THINK. And ARGUE. And long
for being ACKNOWLEDGED. Every posting
of yours is crying for that.
Are you too closed to see that?

There are millions out there who know,
that smoking is dangerous for their
health and the health of others, but
continue to smoke. They did not have
the guts or stamina or intelligence
or luck or whatever it takes to detox.
And what happens, if you point out
to them, that smoking might kill them?
They answer "I know".


Ego (which is basically a system of blocks
against feelings), ego is the most dangerous
of all addictions (and in addition it's
totally supported by society).
Hence to detox from one of the many
ego-habits (like longing for acknowledgement)
is an extreme, nearly impossible trip.
It's only natural not to go onto that journey.

But claiming one knows allready, is a pussy excuse.

Better say:

"I don't want to give up
any of my addictions."

instead of

"I know"

That's my opinion.

Kabir






Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:47 pm
 

back

Message #19195 of 31849

Veet and not veet - lying thru silence.



Tom,

your posting speaks about social relationships -
imagined ones or real ones, that does not matter,
your focus is relationship (e.g. between me and
N0by or between me and Hamburg Sannysins etc.).

And it jumps into the eyes, that you don't speak about
YOUR relationships to those people or groups, you
just speak about other persons. Those omissions of
you own relations are so LOUD, that they develop
their own dynamic. I wonder how you manage to lie
to yourself about them - lying by not speaking
directly about them, lying through the teeth.

And that is my kind of relationship towards you,
my kind of friendship (which by the way has more to
do with me than with you): not giving you a single
inch room for your old games of suppressing and
ignoring your feelings.


Kabir






Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:03 pm

 

back

Message #19194 of 31849

Re: Sir Kabir




>> Kabir wrote:
>> ' But a human can be greatly improved/reduced
>> by a snake. Yet only less than 1% dare to. '

> "graeme" replied:
> So, old man, that would make you some kind of hero.

Or it would make the other 99,..% some kind of great
an idiot.


Why did you not think about that alternative?
Possible reasons:

a)
you subconciously know that you are one such idiot
and the correspondig neurotic crust let you not see
suchlike alternatives.
b)
in your ambition you want to be "some kind of hero",
hence you project that onto others (and then try to
fight it with words).


There is a bunch of other a-personal reasons,
which can be summarized into a statement like
"that's just how it is". But for that standpoints you
- hero or no - would have to make friends with the
snake first. An experience you obviously do not have,
or else you would not put soo much energy into those
personality-games like being an hero or being an anti-.


Kabir






Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:35 pm
 

back

Message #19120 of 31849

Like bees without boots



--- wrote:

> Now please, compare these words of Surendra,
> mirrored in Kabir's feelings for this kind of biz:

As if you are not doing your biz.

A businessman doesn't care what he sells,
anyway he is interested only in what he is
getting back: money - attention - a big number
of listmembers - the self-projection of being
important, being loved, or at least not being
ignored.

Surendra takes his coin, you accepts yours.
He is selling cozyness and enlightenment,
your shop is full of cozyless and darkmonsters.

Who cares? The principal thing is a full list
- aeh.. cash register.

You are not really interested in what I write,
you only use my words as a trigger for your
old fights with the spiritual scene. Everybody
does that, but doing the same thing again and
again for half a century?

You forget: Consumers and producers find each other.
You pick the people (as friend or foe is not important),
who are like you and around Surendra are those like him.


That's what I keep on recognizing more and more:
my whole surrounding, the people I meet, the situations
I live thru, the feelings, the reactions - everything
is created, selected by myself.

Only with thoughts it's more difficult to see, probably
because we think we ARE the thinker. Like Sannyasins
who walk around with their nose in the sky and claim
they are the watcher on the hill.

While you are the freedom bringer, the commentator,
the critice, the journalist on the toilet?
Enjoy the games, keep your enemies, the alternative
would not be something tradeable. 'Cause you
- especially you - you would have to stop trading
your grandma for attention.






















Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:50 am

 

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Message #19115 of 31849

Fwd: Re: Fwd: Words from N0by // Ka boom



--- Hans van der Vhatever wrote:

> What is a Ka?

In my book Ka is the fire which burns
me out from within.

But that's my definition, my life, my view.
Ask Ka - http://www.kabir.de/ka.html

> A walking snake?

Old ideology. As if a snake could be improved
with legs (although Caminamos might be of
different opinion).

But a human can be greatly improved/reduced
by a snake. Yet only less than 1% dare to.

qaumaneq is a snake.
and a fire.
etc.























Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:04 am
 

back

Message #19114 of 31849

If you want me, I will come.



--- Caminamos wrote:
> A different world is possible. This new world begins
> in you. If you want, it will come true.

If you want, if you wish
you will piss, ...aeh... miss.


Thank you, Caminamos, for the
excellent examples of spiritual
blunder which your posts allways
happen to be.

Michael






Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:46 am
 

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Message #19113 of 31849


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HUHUHUHUHUHU .... hui! Huch! Aaah...


From James' self-description:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hobbies: trying to raise the median
level of consciousness on this planet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That made my day.

Perhaps: just shoot yourself to the moon,
that would also raise the median level
of consciousness on this planet, I'm sure.












Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:41 am

 

back

Message #19112 of 31849

Re: CeBIT 2005 / Veet 2



So Veet Thomas spoke to Thomase and said:

You, You, You,
dabadibbidoo,
what is eating you?
Impotence?
Just find importance.

Blah Blah Blubb.

Sweety Veety.

You must have missed everything
worthwhile in your life, why else
play such a depressive role like
this therapist/teacher decal?
When you felt miserable, you were
much closer to being a human.



"Sprituality" is the consolation.
You are the proof, Sweaty.










Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:29 am
 

back

Message #19111 of 31849

Re: Like trees without roots



Hi Skywalker,

you cannot avoid being in the hands of God
- how could you? Impossible.

You cannot break divine laws, well most people
don't even know they are divine laws, because
they are so damned natural that one doen't
recognize them.

Nobody of us can escape from this universe.

Nobody can decide not to follow Love - except
if Love wants it to happen that way.

If you are a hammer in the hands of God, you
don't decide whom to nail down; if you are a jar
and God broke you, it was her choice and action,
not yours. Don't pretend to be anything higher
than you are.

But it's part and parcel of the spiritual commercial
circus, to pretend that we can improve ourselves.
Because the spiritual circus is SELLING LOVE
AND IMPROVEMENT.

Ugly. Cashing in on peoples deficiencies.
Making money, building a reputation in the name of God.

--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, Caminamos <caminamosnet@y...> wrote:
> Those who decide to follow Love must act with Love.
> Those who decide to follow Love and do not act with
> Love are like broken jars, Like exhausted wells, like
> salt mixed with earth, like trees without roots.
>
> http://www.wewalk.net
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wewalk/

And on top of all, you are giving totally false
and inadequate guidelines for a true seeker, like

<radom quote from you website>
"If you want to see God, you will only need
to open your eyes. God is before you."
</quote>

Wrong.

Probably you want people to look at YOU and
say: "Gee, see how holy this Caminamos is!"



OK. Deep breath.
Sorry if I disturbed you,
I was just bored.

Obviously God wants to have
broken jars, broken bones,
broken minds on this planet.


















Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:13 am
 

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Message #18756 of 31850

Hi, drop-out! Again part of the ocean dumping?



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, OSHOCHAITANYO wrote:
> :-) *everything is a drop in the ocean.
> so every drop is eternal.

Everything changes, but what seems to be
REALLY AND UNWAVERING ETERNAL is stupidity.

Ka
--
This N0by-list is TERRIFIC!









Wed Feb 9, 2005 2:17 pm
 

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Message #18755 of 31850

Re: [°-:)] Rani: Enlightenment, before, during and after



OSHOCHAITANYO, sac or whatever you name yourself.

are you drunken or what?

Quoting the whole lengthy N0by-shit, which was
also 88.99% a quote only, then prepending
3 single lines of yourself,
but these even in a form that it is not
clear what or whom you mean:

> :-) *this is the dark night of the soul.
> within you come out of the tunnel and then fall back.
>
> :-) it looks unending, but a moment comes, when it ends. enjoy sac*

And the whole bullshit obviously just to
claim that the dark night of the soul has
ended for you?

If you play with yourself, do you
call it sick-sac-so?

Whatever you think about yourself:
your post is an outstanding example
for "neo-spriritual" unawareness.

Probably you consumed too much mushrooms
at the entrance, lost your orientation
and went back to where you came from:
an ordinary ego wanting to be special.

Now you have a special ego, man.


Ka








Wed Feb 9, 2005 2:09 pm
 

back

Message #18735 of 31850

Re: Rani: Enlightenment, before, during and after



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "°:-\)" <n0by4you@y...> wrote:
> Enlightenment, before, during and after
> di Rani

scopata di mente






Tue Feb 8, 2005 9:45 am
 

back

Message #18692 of 31850

Re: ''Buddha and God'' - from Maitreya Ishwara



> My question: how can anyone not be
> this ''messenger for God or Source''?

Maitreya is coming to Munich this spring, as you know.
So your questions are not questions, but rather
your usual trie to "mix people up".

Minus 10 points. No pudding for you tonite.






Thu Feb 3, 2005 11:36 pm
 

back

Message #18680 of 31850

Osho lives. His Sannyasins are dead. That is his blessing.



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, SWAMI ali wrote:
> Sure you can ask 1001 questions,
> maybe you find a fool who tries to answer them,
> surely it' s not me.

That's right, you seldomly answer questions.
Probably you think, your unasked statements
of spiritual wisdowm are of unquestionable value
allready.

Yet, man, YOU COPY OSHO.
You are just a Bavarina, intellectual
(urgs, what a mixture!) copy of the
old Indian's lectures.

But you did not copy, that Bhagwan
used the lectures mainly to overload
ego + mind of those who were not ready
to simply surrender.

> Und du Mikel bist sowas von vorhersehbar,
> mir wird schon ganz schlecht, kaum schreib ichn
> bischen was von Osho, mußt du deinen Senf dazugeben,
> scheint der Stachel sitzt noch sehr tief bei dir.

Wenn du nicht so vernagelt wärst, bräuchte man nicht
Alles tausendmal zu wiederholen, du drittklassiger
Ersatz-Therapeut.

Did you watch it?











Thu Feb 3, 2005 10:51 am
 

back

Message #18676 of 31850

Re: 3' of february - the n0by fuck you week -



Pretty egotestical what you write, Tom.






Thu Feb 3, 2005 1:12 am
 

back

Message #18625 of 31850

Re: [°-:)] Michael-Kabir's 60th Birthday



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Muthu" wrote:
> hello KA with BEER,
> wish you a VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY

Thank you.

> you never looked (FELT ) like you are into 60s.....
> i thought you were in 40s...

Mu2, seems like everything you are or say
needs to be multiplied by 2 before becoming true. .o)






Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:39 am
 

back

Message #18624 of 31850

This subject better left blank



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" wrote:

> Michael, happy birthday.
> For your birthday a piece of German literature, that breathes
> your way, with again the use of 'yielding'.

Thank you, have a piece from my cake:


[Goethe] > Here's where I've planted my garden
[Goethe] > and here I shall care for love's blossoms--

Goethe has not yielded, he is just talking about it.
Otherwise he would neither have claimed to have planted
the garden, nor that it was his. And his way of speaking
about love's blossoms smells of using love for something
he wants to get.

[Goethe] > As I am taught by my muse, ...

Better. But he seems to be very much in the beginning,
still very much centered about himself.

But it's understandable, Hans, that you
had chosen Goethe: at least he is one step
ahead of you. His muse is talking to him
and he is listening.

[Goethe] > --Hypocrites, those are the ones!

Goethe is angry about hypocrites,
but obviously he's not getting it,
that this anger is coming from his Self
and aiming at himself.

[Goethe] > Today a proud Rome claims to be queen of the world.

While Hans claims to be King of himself,
able to make gifts. But all his gifts are
not even his own pictures or words.


One more cake, or is it too sweet?



Michael






Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:34 am

 

back

Message #18622 of 31850

Buddha awake and asking for breakfast.



Hi Tom,

thanks for the flowers.

Looks like you are
"tired with your old master"
and "heard it all before".
If I'm wrong with that,
please excuse.


Perhaps you have not listened
to "your old master"?
Or not listened in the right
state at the right time?

"A master cannot give you anything,
cannot make you enlightened.
He can only help you find your
inner master, bring you to your inner
master, and then the job of the outer
master is done."
OSHO [quoted from memory]


When I once had the feeling I should
visit Michael Barnett in his house in
The Alps, where his was living with his
"family" and some chosen disciples,
I contacted him and wrote so.
It took some time, then the answer came
that it was not possible.

My feeling had not changed, I was allready
determined to go there even without a positive
answer, so I didn't answer the "no-message"
(tricky, ain't I?), bought a railway ticket
and went there.

I arrived in the afternoon, asked in the village
where his house was, went up by foot (about 1 to 2
hours), arrived short before sunset, rang the bell
and told again that my presence was not possible.

The feeling did not change, so at sat down
at the site of his house, wept a little but did
not do anything else than just be there. Someone
looked after what I was doing there, and I told, I
just was sitting there, it was just my
feeling to be there. Half an hour later
(it was allready becoming dark by now)
I was again asked, and I told, that I was
not intending to create any hassle, just
wanted to sit there, and if I could do so, please.
I had a cushion to sit on and something to keep
me relatively warm during the night, and the place
where I sat was under the large roof the houses in
the Alps are famous for. The feeling was "sit there",
so I was happy not to have to go back in the dark
down the slippery, dirty (and in the dark somewhat
dangerous) mountainway-way into the valley and
village again. It looked like I would have a nice
sitting-night under a beautiful star-spreckled sky
and in an harmless (yet a little cold and boring)
situation and then leave the next day by train again.

To my surprise about 1 1/2 hours later,
I was asked wher I would like to join the
family sitting together in the living room
after supper. Sure I did.
Michael exchanged some sentences with me
and the others - introduced me to his wife
and two his children (one had birthday, I think) -
you know small talk, family talk so to say.
Then Michael said told, I could remain over night,
if I wanted to, I said yes,
thank you, was shown a place to sleep
and got something to eat in the kitchen.
It was not my feeling to join the others
playing ping-pong, so I rather helped
cleaning the dishes, and then went to sleep
alone in one of the group-quarter. No, I didn't
mind sleeping alone, in fact that would be great
because then I may snore freely. Thank you,
good night.

Sleeping ther was like being under a big djungle tree
- next to an enourmous trunk of individuality.

Next morning I payed a very moderate sum
for the bed 'n breakfast and went home again.
Contented and happy. Not because I had gotten
what I wanted, but because I had followed my
feeling, had been given presents by existence -
even my wish to see how MB is living/working
with his "inner circle" had been fulfilled.

The feeling ahd been followed, no harm had
happened for anybody, perfect. Complete.
The wish has evaporated.


How was it with you and Laleela?
I've heard you went over to see her -
that's true?


Michael
--

If your wish is to follow your Buddha,
it's only you who can avert or fullfill
it. Only you. Alone. All else is eso-ego.

But eso-ego means not being alone.






Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:11 am
 

back

Message #18601 of 31850

Re: [°-:)] Yokohama, batzi!



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:
> or how one says in Bavaria...
> drink ma no a hoibe, Gsuffa

Yes, why not. But in the nearest future
I'm not going to "know where my head stands".

> your remarks brought sometimes
> smiles and laughter to me,

nice. I especially love the last picture.
It shows Ali shortly before the sudden end
of a Japanese-Bavarian "drink ma no a hoibe,
Gsuffa" .o)

> and then the bad message: your psychological
> analysis of me you
> can find in every third-rate-new-age-psycho book.

a) This is right.
b) It was not meant as psychological, but energetical.
c) The solution is not found in a psycho book.

> How to understand
> the truth for beginners, or something like this

True understanding means acting accordingly.

> And it is a bit known too: only because
> i am also a baldy, that does
> not mean that i am a "fighter" like you.

But only because it does not mean,
that you are automatically a "fighter"
does not mean you negated to be one.

> ... samurai ... i am your mirror ...

aha.

> We can go on with this for lifes and there will be
> no winner and no loser.

If one goes for winner or loser,
it allways takes lifes.


Greetings






Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:25 am
 

back

Message #18599 of 31850

Re: [°-:)] grief



--- N0by wrote:
> Dear Valerie, dear Sharlene,
...
> Your domain light-mission.org looks professional,

Excellent.






Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:10 am
 

back

Message #18582 of 31850

Re: I am Ego ...



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "adithya_comming" wrote:
>
> Silence ...Not Mine,
> Peace ...Not Mine,
>
> but, noise, ...mine,
> thoughts, ...mine.

Dearest, again commmming?

You may relax.
You are not only Ego.
You're Indian.

> I live, ...in desire,
> ...in resistance, struggle and Fight .
>
> In surrender, in acceptance,
> ...I can only Die !

No problem. Indians have survived
hundreds of spiritual tsunamis
(called "masters") and are still
multiplying happily. So that
little energy in North America
is not going to make you extinct.
The native, yes, they shake and
tremble, if they only hear a
prayer service in Toronto,
but for you that's just a little
Kundalini, raising up the spine
and dancing in the brain, isn't it?


Have you allready? I don't mean
experienced Kundalini,surrendered,
accepted,died, seen the blue diamond
(that's natural for an Indian
anyway), I mean: multiplied?
Do you care for children?
Married? Living with a woman?
Can you cook?
Have a receipt for a good apple
cake?
You don't come from an area
in India where apples grow,
do you?

I'm curious.
You are curious.
We are curious, ...

Ah yeah: I forgot:
God is curious too.
Immmmmensely.
She's a woman after all.
With snakes in her hair
(but that's all of course
only my imagination).









Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:25 am
 

back

Message #18579 of 31850

Yobisamasu, buke!



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:

> > How would you be able to, if not teached first?
> able to what?

Oops, why this question? Have you not understood?

> showing feelings ...

Aha, you understood perfectly what I meant.
So the question was - what? A break? A time-out
to go pissing in the middle of the argument?


But it's coming even better:

> showing feelings is an inbuilt program,

As if anybody here would not know that.
Do you want us believe that this program is
still intact in you? Unhindered? Unblocked?

> maybe you have done it too, if the stress was too much
> for you with your two women as a child ....

Really! This emotional dinosaurus dares to imply,
that he has no problems with showing his feelings!
And even tries to turn around and cover up his
softy-masquerade with pointing at me!

> btw: the bigger problem in my eyes was, that there was no
> father present for you ....

My biggest problem was and is, that I am present in my life.

With an face and an impact like mine (which is by the way
only about 70% of what you are carrying around), I needed
no other problems. .o)

When I smilingly approach a lady on the street to ask her
where the newest bio-shop is, she intuitively makes a
steps backwards and looks for an escape route out of the
corner of her eye.

But you don't have no problems, sweety, do you?
They throw rose petals, when they see you? Huh?

My god! Looking like a Russian profi killer
and playing the spiritual lap-dog!
Come on, wag your tail! Come on, be a good boy!
Softy-imitation, Bavarian style, false one!


But relax, it also has it's good moments to
look like we do. When there is a quarrel in
the subway - you certainly know that type:
drunken male youngster trying to impress himself
by intimidating the girls - then I only need to
go over there and say that I don't like it.
Up to now that allways silenced everybody.

And I bet no one ever tries to rob you in your taxi
- or else you can show a little patience and drive
him directly to Haar [the mental asylum of the
Munich area] - he must have lost contact with reality.

Like you have.


So what?

I'll tell you, how I see you:


++++++++++++++++++++++
# YOU ARE A FIGHTER. #
++++++++++++++++++++++

A "Samurai", if you prefer that nonesense.

YOUR BODY IS YOUR REALITY.

But your mind is a programmed maggot.

They've transformed you into something they could
handle, because they had (and still have) big
subconscious fear of you. So they don't allow
you to come into your Power. They keep you at 5 to 10%.
And you allowed it, because you needed to be loved.

So you allowed to be conditioned into a softy.
And not only allowed it, but did it yourself
intensely, actively and intentionally.

And you didn't even get it, that the
conditioning which let you chose to start
taxi driving - to "come out of the mind" -
this conditioning, IS the new programming,
the new Sannyas-mind, which Osho implanted
cleverly into your brain.

And you let it happen - just to be "loved".

As if women who need powerless men
could love any man anyway.

Now go on wagging your maggot and
continue listening to so called
"females" who claim that you
are not the body.

First you have to be in the body.
100% - That's about 1000% of what
the maggot thinks possible.
The rest is done by Nature.
Your Nature - not their "nature".


And - goddam - stop calling yourself Swami.
Only would-like-to-be's do that. I know.


Black lost by biting the board.

http://www.pandanet.co.jp/English/art/tada1.html
http://www.pandanet.co.jp/English/art/earthspider.html
http://www.pandanet.co.jp/English/art/onodera.html
http://www.pandanet.co.jp/English/art/tada1550.html









Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:30 pm
 

back

Message #18555 of 31850

prepare your butt, Ali



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:
> Anyway, it was a good move to show them your helplessness,
> very tricky.

Showing feelings is tricky?
Of course feelings and helplessness
come together, to avoid one you
only need to avoid the other.

But if a man simply uses his strength,
that is not tricky.

Tricked are those who think, he should not.
Or who think feelings are weakness.

> Two women in your childhood, hm, at least we all know
> now the reason for your stubbornness, poor boy ....

To be stubborn can be helpful in such cases .o)

... and stupid in others.











Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:49 pm
 

back

Message #18536 of 31850

prepare your butt Kabir



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" wrote:
>
> you found your masters ;-)

Yeah, my god! And two of that kind!
My old fear:
two verbally well equipped women
against me. Grew up with a mother and
an elder sister. Big trauma.
Did speak myself anything for decades.

Suicide a valid option?






Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:13 pm
 

back

Message #18535 of 31850

Re: [°-:)] Who am I



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, Sharlene <sharlene@l...> wrote:
>
> > > Am i better or worse than your neighbor? am i less real?
> >Well, please understand:
> >
> >You are not any other person, neither my neighbor,
> >nor your neighbor, nor me. So any comparision
> >is basically faulty from the very beginning.
>
> So in your search for finding oneness with all that is,
> you have created a separateness within yourself.
> Drawing boundaries around all that you seek.
>
> >There is you and there is me.
> >Your feelings and my feelings.
>
> Comparisons will always be made when one is living with feelings....
> Feelings are common place, the glue that keeps every person the
same.
> Little boxes made out of ticky tacky and they look the same.
> And ah, the joys and frustrations of wanting to be different in a
world of
> sameness.
>
> >Of course I'm frustrating you,
> >but so do you. If we avoid
> >frustrating each other, in the
> >100% frustration-less situation
> >we would only write what the
> >other wants to read.
>
> Ah yes, frustration. What causes it in the first place?
> Have you got that all figured out?
>
> >That is,
> >in a frustrationless situation
> >there would only be monologues,
> >nothing new would happen.
>
> Seeking new, the old world isn't working for you?
> What is it exactly that you are seeking?
>
> >If you talk to me, as if I was
> >your neighbor, you must have an
> >abstract idea, a governing concept
> >about me and your neighbor.
>
> Thats true, both are still under the illusion that the
> me you think of as me, isn't real.
>
> >And then you would talk with that
> >concept - i.e. you would talk to
> >your own projection.
>
> There is a difference between a concept and observation.
> The difference being within the concept is an attachment,
> and observation has none.
>
> >Having said that, I continue
> > > Am i better or worse than your neighbor?
> >I usually don't talk with my neighbor.
> >We don't have much in common, I suppose.
>
> Hmm, both human, both with a belief system, both live in the same
area,
> same town,
> same street, thats a good start for common ness. As it has been
said,
> charity begins at home. You are your neighbourhood. It is manifested
> through you.
>
> > > am i less real?
> >Yes, up to that last email, yes.
> >But with that last email of yours
> >you have shown to be more real
> >than before, you have shown yourself
> >as vulnerable.
> >- all of course in my view -
>
> Within your concepts you mean. You seem to believe that those who
are
> not living within the emotional body are not real. Do you think that
it
> through emotions only that two people connect to each other?
Emotions are
> based in fears, so you like to connect through that fear? To feel
like you
> aren't different than the rest while wanting to be different? Ah,
the joys
> and frustrations of living within a dual world.
>
> >Finally there is something to be said,
> >which is difficult to express for me.
> >Difficult, because I'm myself not sure.
>
> fear
>
> >Difficult, because it damned sounds
> >pathetic,
>
> wanting and needing approval
>
> >when it's expressed directly,
> >and it sounds false,
>
> if emotionally based, it is false. There is no truth through
emotional
> responses.
> half truths perhaps, or an underlying truth, but not truth itself
>
> >when it's not
> >expressed with energy. Let me try it.
>
> You mean with emotion? If one can't hear or see the emotional
involvement
> then you fear it won't sound sincere?
>
> >This is not a place for small talk.
> >At least not for me.
>
> Good, because you are not getting any.
>
> >This is a place to express my truth.
>
> Truth belongs to no one. The truth that you own are concepts of
truth.
>
> >Wether it's loved or hated is not
> >my business.
>
> Right, you are not responsible for others feelings.
> Yet, you want the right to have and express your own.
>
> >Of course with most
> >people I love to be loved
>
> You are loved. The whole world is love once you take off the
blinders and
> drop the conditioned notions that what you desire and seek is no
different
> than anyone else on the path. Emotional love is not BEING love.
Emotional
> love is full of conditions.
> I'll love you if........blackmail is all that is. Love is what
remains when
> all else has dropped away.
>
> >and and
> >hate to be treated like shit,
>
> That then is your Achilles heel.
> being treated like shit, can be open to interpretation.
> No one is responsible for how you feel or react either, anymore than
you
> are not responsible for others. You are born alone, and you die
alone.
> No one can save you but yourself. If you don't want to feel like
shit, then
> get out of the manure.
>
> Above you call it frustration.
>
> >but
> >my first and topmost goal is to be
> >myself.
>
> You don't even know who you are, let alone who you are not.
> How can you be yourself when you don't have a clue on how to find
that?
> Who are you? Are you your emotions and feelings? Are you your anger
and
> frustration? Do you identify yourself only through how you feel?
> Do you think of yourself as compassionate and loving? Do you think
of
> yourself as empathetic?
> Do you think that love is accepting another for what and who they
are,
> although you know they are living filled with manure?
>
> What is it you really want?
> What are your desires?
> What are your fears?
> Know this, and you may learn to know yourself.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005






Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:55 pm
 

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Message #18528 of 31850

[°-:)] [°-:)] Re: [°-:)] Who am I



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:
> You are really too predictable.
> Always the No-schema.
> You have a stubborn pattern,
> who pretends to know.
> Drop your past! Become human.

Mirror, mirror on the wall,
who is the bravest of us all?

Drop the past?
Have you changed?
Have I changed?






Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:43 pm
 

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Message #18527 of 31850

[°-:)] Re: [°-:)] Who am I



Hi Joyce,

that discussion about men and women is
by now over 30 years old. I'm aiming
at something else:

We all saw many years of female leadership
in the area of self-knowledge and spirituality
starting in the seventies, I think.
Men had to learn to feel again, and
women were teaching that.

But that phase of therapy and emotional
groups is over. Anyone still playing the
therapist with those old, copied techniques
is doing so out of his own - mosly greedy -
motives.

> I'm sorry you were were brought up
> the wrong way.

We all have.

> [...] mother's fault. But she carried
> you for nine months, [...] Because
> of her you are alive in the body [...]

I'm very thankful for that. But that's
not the point. I'm not digging into
old mother-projections. I'm talking
in the present, was using the female
thing only to "hit the bush". Because
for me this group-talk, therapeutic
attitude is OUT. They way some
women still play these roles is MEGA-OUT.

It's time that we come together again,
not as "men" and "women", but as what
we are, what we can give and what we
can take.

So I hit the bush with a shout of
"female therapist!" and Joyce flew up?

> Joyce: How profound! Kabir
> reaching the essence. Back
> off Sharlene, holy men at work.

Old games, Joyce. See what I mean?

> Joyce: Yes, take advantage of Kabir's offer
> of online therapy - he wants personal
> connection but he wants it his way.
> Some guys just have to be on top.
> How beautiful, how lovely he is.
> What a wonderful show!

1970ies encounter group talk.
Still fighting ghosts - male ghosts.

So this theme of "face showing"
also rings a bell in you, aha.

I want to see the face of a person, yes.
It's telling a lot more than just the words.
Faces cannot be copied, words can.
If you don't believe the latter,
you've never read N0by-List.

My picture (and more)
is here: http://kabir.de
Where is yours?

You know, Joyce and Sharlene et al.:

I've enough of that verbal bullshit.
Show your reality or talk with yourself.
This life is primarily not about words.
And not about being as big mouthed
and faceless as possible - wether
one is male or female.


Kabir






Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:23 pm
 

back

Message #18523 of 31850

[°-:)] Re: [°-:)] Who am I



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:
> I find these "why"- questions lead nowhere.

Yes, and that's where you won't ever go.

"Why"-questions are trying to dig into the ego
of the questioned person. With the active support
of that person, they can even be used to drill
holes down into the ego.

> At the most one can say: it happened.
> Or: one wanted it.

The escaping answer of a Sannyas Ego.
You did it.


> Suviro

The "brave" ? No, not really.
You do your fightings in a Kindergarten.
You ran away from real challenges.








Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:57 pm
 

back

Message #18522 of 31850

Re: [°-:)] Who am I



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, Sharlene wrote:
> Comparisons will always be made when one
> is living with feelings....
> Feelings are common place, the glue that
> keeps every person the same.
> Little boxes made out of ticky tacky and
> they look the same.
> And ah, the joys and frustrations of
> wanting to be different in a world of
> sameness.
> [... and so on ...]


Oh, my God! Another faceless therapist-
master-mother has entered the list.

Sharlene, if you don't want to show
your face, why don't you go somewhere,
were that is the normal behaviour?
Special anti- or pro-terrorist forces
for example?


How does it come that women believe
they can teach. Hormones? Bio-programs?
Old habits from the past 5000 years
of bringing up children the wrong way?


Thanks for your mirroring,
but you mirror only the form
and words and concepts I used
to reach the other person.
You miss the essence.

So your wonderful email show
is just that: a show. Like an
esoteric version of Nato (the singer).
Like a TV competion for the upcoming
stars. There is no personal connection
- except perhaps that you might
want to show that you can analyse
a text nearly as well as I can.

Why not show yourself for a change?
Too famous, too ugly, too beautiful?
Not been to the hair-dresser recently?


Kabir






Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:45 pm
 

back

Message #18518 of 31850

Re: [°-:)] Who am I



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:
> [ to me ]
> You become old

Yes. You don't ?

> You yielded too soon

What if the way is surrender?
I don't know, my life has not ended yet.
I simply live and express what I'm told.
But what if?

You know better?
Better than your master?
Then why did you go to him
in the first place?


Kabir
--
Leonard Cohen in one of´his
"10 new songs" after years
in a Zen Monastery:

"I close the book of longing
and do what I am told"







Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:38 pm
 

back

Message #18513 of 31850

Who am I



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" wrote:

> the deal is child simple, i talk to you as a real person...
> i don't take exchanges as if they were virtual, i don't
> know what would bother you so much to have a regular
> conversation like with your neighbor.
> Am i better or worse than your neighbor? am i less real?

Well, please understand:

You are not any other person, neither my neighbor,
nor your neighbor, nor me. So any comparision
is basically faulty from the very beginning.

There is you and there is me.
Your feelings and my feelings.

Of course I'm frustrating you,
but so do you. If we avoid
frustrating each other, in the
100% frustration-less situation
we would only write what the
other wants to read. That is,
in a frustrationless situation
there would only be monologues,
nothing new would happen.

If you talk to me, as if I was
your neighbor, you must have an
abstract idea, a governing concept
about me and your neighbor.
And then you would talk with that
concept - i.e. you would talk to
your own projection.


Having said that, I continue

> Am i better or worse than your neighbor?

I usually don't talk with my neighbor.
We don't have much in common, I suppose.

> am i less real?

Yes, up to that last email, yes.
But with that last email of yours
you have shown to be more real
than before, you have shown yourself
as vulnerable.
- all of course in my view -


Finally there is something to be said,
which is difficult to express for me.
Difficult, because I'm myself not sure.
Difficult, because it damned sounds
pathetic, when it's expressed directly,
and it sounds false, when it's not
expressed with energy. Let me try it.

This is not a place for small talk.
At least not for me.
This is a place to express my truth.
Wether it's loved or hated is not
my business. Of course with most
people I love to be loved and and
hate to be treated like shit, but
my first and topmost goal is to be
myself.










Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:10 am
 

back

Message #18507 of 31850

[°-:)] Re: Dylan Thomas\Judy\Kabir my sweet girl



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" wrote:
>
> sorry Kabir according to your request we are not in an exchange.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

"which Kabir?"
...
"Oh, THAT, Kabir! No I don't know him."






Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:14 am
 

back

Message #18505 of 31850

Re: LIFE - A lecture by Walter Wainright Smindegott the third



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Graeme" <graemewp@f...> wrote:
>
> yes, I don't recall anyone asking for your services
> you should ' listen ' and see if anybody actually wants your help
> instead of just opening your mouth and prattling away!
> WHEN will you start listening to your own advice?


Oh, I do.
I'm just listening to a different source
than you do.

BUT I had to learn that thru listening to
somebody who is allready hearing that voice.
Just 10 years difference between these two states,
but 10 years of (mainly) discomfort
and not 10 years of your complaining
how rude the world is handling poor Eric.








Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:07 am
 

back

Message #18504 of 31850

[°-:)] Re: Dylan Thomas\Judy\Kabir my sweet girl



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" wrote:

> From the point of view that you want no conversation
> i have nothing against the above,

No conversation with what you think you are.
While what we both are is enjoying the meeting.
If you can't recognize the joy of your Buddha,
it's not my fault.

> if you take off like this suit yourself Kabir ...

Sure I do. But whom are you suiting then?
At this old age still wanting to impress
other people? Mom, dad, past or future lovers?

On the deathbead you will be still asking:
"Am I really not breathing to loud?
Hahhhhhh...pffft..."


> i still have in memory the first time i arrived here
> and spoke with you, you unsubded in 15 minutes and
> came back only after a week; i was not so tame then. :-)

If you want attention, buy some hours with a Freudian analyst.
But if you want to wake up before you die, focus on yourself.

And should you ever decide to seek some support from
a spiritual friend to grow in awareness, bear in mind:
whenever you are treated politely, you are loosing in
awareness, and vice versa. Why do you think ar the
advertisements and the salesmen sooo polite? To give
you the most freedom to choose the product which suits
your needs most? Or to use your politeness-addiction
for their own goals?

Just have a look in the old scriptures how the
promising disciples have been treated: sitting
outside for a year without being allowed to ask
anything, for example. Why have they been treated
like that? Because the master needed it for his
own ego? Like a dentists needs your pain to feel
better himself?

Either you foster your addiction for attention and
flattering and ego-friendly treatment or you go
for the real thing, for the real you.

And, Eric, I don't write that for you. You have allready
stated many, many times, that you cannot handle anything
more rude than a loving wisper. I just write it down.
Might be some intelligent soul picks up the idea,
what do I know, why I do these things? Could well be,
I just make myself even more unsocial. Then be it so.
Better alone than together with a bunch of idiots
who only want to blow up their spirito-intellectual
illusionary self-image, are greedy to get answered
and become acknowledged and cannot even tolerate a
different opinion in an email list. Or - imagine -
get pissed, when I'm not available everyday for their
word-masturbations.

I hope, I made myself clear enough.
Now go on whining.









Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:56 pm
 

back

Message #18498 of 31850

Re: [°-:)] Don't stump on the ducks, please.



When I was in the Ashram of that old Indian many years ago
(while he was still living and I still trying), there was
a wild duck in the garden. It wasn't fed (large signs said
"Don't feed the duck!") and was not imprisioned or whatever,
it just had chosen to be there. When you came near where
it sat silently, it made "quaak, quaak" to warn you, that it
was there (stupid humans never recognize different life-forms,
do they?).

It was so beautiful, just a duck. But you know how
beautiful they are, or else you wouldn't use "Quaak"
as a loving greeting gesture.

I attended an intense training at that time (I was still
trying, did I mention?) - called "Esoteric Science" -
run by those nice little black wizards Waduda and Wadud -
trying different meditation techniques the whole day,
looking at energies, auras, doing chakra reading,
doing channeling - you know the whole bucket of it.

One method was looking with the third eye - sort of unfocused
seeing at things, or seeing an object as part of it's surrounding
and the like. When I was in the garden at noon-break I sat
there silently and tried that on the duck's third eye.

But the duck had no third eye.
The whole duck WAS third eye.






> It was not the fat ass duck .
> It was the devil made me do it.

We both know who that is.
I got him before my lense recently:
http://www.kabir.de/6598.06_g.jpg


> Sometimes Im like ol soxs Im in a big fight
> & six hours go by & where Im I now.Improper
> brain waves or with it????? I hate it when
> the devil makes me come off as ugly.
> Really I never want to be.

That's really a big problem, which many of us
have. But it's not a problem with ourselves,
but rather with our upbringing. We are educated,
trained, forced not to accept our Self, and
to mistrust our feelings, if they are not
"lovingly" (i.e. acceptable to the elder idiots).

We often mistrust our inner wisdom,
when it tells us to hit somebody.
A very dangerous development:
the whole world is mentally ill
because of that "education".

> I ask Eric for forgivinesss & he said ok I
> think.I havent rocked him yet but I want to.
> Dear God He says he has two
> children that already hit him so
> I have to love him

Perhaps he needs more than the love of
two children? .o)

> Damn I had my
> grandchildren for christmas .4 & 6 damn
> I love them so but oh shit a monkey
> they almost killed the ol woman.

How lucky you are .o)









Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:33 pm
 

back

Message #18495 of 31851

Re: LIFE - A lecture by Walter Wainright Smindegott the third



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "graeme" wrote:
>
> And GOD isn't ' out there '.
> GOD which is LIFE is where we are if only we can realise that.

Start by listening to the ducks.
If you are doing that consistantly
for one year, you could enter the
next spiritual level:
The Quaak-training.

But don't mess with the progress chart;
never quak without having listened
first for at least a year. And with
that "listen" I don't mean to listen
to your own thinking.

"listen" implies "hearing", not "talking".


At your service









Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:21 pm
 

back

Message #18492 of 31851

Re: [°-:)] In an Alien Elan



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Graeme" <graemewp@f...> wrote:
>
> Your patronising know-all attitude is noted.

Old problems with mom and dad.
Kindergarten level.

ambition is suppressed inferiority.






Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:45 pm
 

back

Message #18491 of 31851

Don't stump on the ducks, please.



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" wrote:
> [ to lovely Ma Duck ]
> You have no measure, suppose i do just what you did, i add 50%
> rudeness on each message as we proceed, and this place is
> flooded with two idiot dumping shit on each other ...

Please first learn counting.
For beginners counting is not
done in front of a mirror.

There was only one idiot dumping shit
(before I entered). .o)


And - regarding measures - this duck
is allready where you allways phantasized
to reach.


A sitting duck is higher
than a standing know-it-all.

If Sitting Bull had had more wisdom
he would not have called himself "bull".
General Custard.

And on the seventh day The Duck rested.







Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:39 pm
 

back

Message #18490 of 31851

[°-:)] Re: Dylan Thomas\Judy



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" wrote:
> [ to holy Daisy Duck ]
> You answer those posts in series like junk advertisement in the
> mailbox, soon arrived soon discarded, plus the silly sounds, do you
> expect an exchange or you don't give a fuck?
> if we are conversing please give notice, thanks!

While you, Eric, answer as if you are dead allready
and only the wind is turning the dry pages in
your brain from one side to the other.

What living creature might be even remotely
interested doing conversation with you? First do
your conservation properly and get some
good mummy-ailment and -deodorant.

Thinker = Stinker.


It's allways a pleasure to be at your service. .o)







Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:26 pm
 

back

Message #18432 of 31851

graeme

Re: Dylan Thomas



A song from the times when you were younger?
Afraid of dying?
Afraid because you have not lived your life?
Having spent too many years seeking
instead of living?
Had Bob Dylan sing your songs and
spiritual masters speak your truth?

Don't waste your life any more.

Esoteric is the most sticky waste-bin possible.
The modern spirituality-greed is like trying to
get "clean" by replacing Vodca with Heroin.

Yet, if that's what you want to do,
who is there to stop you?

...

You think, I don't mean you?

Fuck you. You are wasting a human life.









Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:26 am
 

back

Message #18407 of 31851

Re: Gerhard, neighbour in our house / Found under Washu



Hi N0by,

you said:

> ...and one thing is strange: we never talk about
> anything ''esoterical'' - only practical things...
> that works fine


For me the real strange thing is,
that you find that strange.

Esoteric which is not practical is
illusionary - practically speaking.






Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:10 pm
 

back

Message #18369 of 31852

Re: Living michael revisited



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" wrote:
> 'My' essence is unchangeable.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT.
Ego using esoteric smalltalk to protect itself.








Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:06 pm
 

back

Message #18368 of 31852

Re: [�-:)] PLEASE ONE OR TWO FRIENDS OF N0BY COME FORTH



Hans,

YOU try to argue, discuss in words?

YOU?

How comes? You are an emotional type, obviously.
How did it come, that you begin arguing.
That's not your field of expertise.
What have the thinkers done with you,
that you begin using logic insted of feelings?

Strange.






Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:03 pm
 

back

Message #18367 of 31852

Re: A reference (in German) / http://www.straightdope.com/art/1979/790413.gif



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" wrote:
>
> -Hail,

= Whole.

> [...] it is useless to say to you,
> that it is amazing how subtle you shift the used meaning of
> my words for your own purpose: vomiting your truth all over.

While you vomit other people's truth.

> So, just for the record: 'nothing new' in my message means,
> and you know that, that I knew allready the described facts
> as facts.

That doesn't mean, you know yourself.

> It is false, and spiritual blabla, to connect this meaning
> of new to beauty.
> The beauty in your vomiting is there always, together with
> the smell of it.

Oh, great, you draw level with the
"distant smell of used pampers".

It took some time, but finally - perhaps -
you may even come out with your own opinions.








Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:54 pm
 

back

Message #18358 of 31852

Re: Fwd: small niches of beliefs called lists/forums/e-groups



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" wrote:

> what can i do for you?
> anything you want to talk about Michael?

I don't need no headshrink, and be assured,
if I want to talk about something, I just do it.


It's allways astonishing, how this new-age therapy
and -group talk is considered "normal".

< shudder >






Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:09 am
 

back

Message #18353 of 31852

Re: Fwd: small niches of beliefs called lists/forums/e-groups



Morning, Mr. P.,

deconstructionism without letting your self be questioned
looks like doing Judo while sitting in a Sherman tank.

I'd thought you have more guts. Rinky-dink.






Sun Jan 9, 2005 2:03 pm
 

back

Message #18351 of 31852

Again, nothing new. Really.



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" <mail@h...> wrote:
> Morning,
> [...]
> Again, nothing new, but it keeps hurting.
> [...] Could not find the news-item on
> which this is based, but I trust it to be 'true'.

Morning,

must have been difficult for you to get up,
after loosing your last brain-cell.
But great, that you managed.


Using news to check, which is "true"?
Using other peoples words to find out,
what is "true" for you?
Browsing the internet for words and pictures,
instead of using your own creativity?


That's what hurts *me*: you use all your energy
and talents to avoid yourself and copy others.
Just for the cheap coin of becoming acknowledged,
of being seen as "intelligent" by other copiers,
by other beggars for acknowledgement.


Two weeks after the tsunami you recognize that
more people are dying by human-created situations
than by the tsunami. Two full weeks for this
simple math. And then - of course - only getting it,
because it was somewhere written in the internet.


Kabir
--
Q.
How to double the intelligence of
Hans Guck in de Luften?
A.
Upgrade his DSL to 2 MBit.






Sun Jan 9, 2005 11:25 am

 

back

Message #18349 of 31852

Re: Living michael



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" wrote:
> -Hail,
> [...]
> Up thread you wrote:
> "The more a person gets it, the harder it is neccessary for
> them to be whacked. And that is allways done out of love.
> It is easy not to do such things, to praise and encourage.
> That it easy for a teacher to do. But to wallop people, who,
> in a way, are getting it, is an essential work on a teacher.
> Because only a teacher can do it. Your friends can't do it,
> your lovers can't do it. You won't listen to them, they won't
> hit you deep enough."
>
> Might it be, that your most of the time very blunt tone of
> voice, is based on this opinion of this for us
> anonymous "Living Master"?

That you are ignorant about the teachings of modern, living
Masters doesn't make them anonymous. I'm sure, other members
of this list know who said that.

Ignorant => not not knowing, but not wanting to know.

> Did you make this statement into your core
> this-is-how-teaching-works belief?

Not a belief, but experiences and digging deeper
into what teachers are saying.

> What I wanted to tell you actually, reason that I restarted
> the pc, (and this had to be said now, regardless if you will
> ever read it), is the following:
> Michael, in the beginning I plugged in on your deliberately
> harsh way of speaking.
> This is over now.

Yet this is just an outside oil skin for my
feeling, essentially you have not changed
during the last years.

You just became more and more pissed
cause I didn't buy your naivety masks.
Pissed, because I didn't give you that
much "attention", as you demand.

Normal ego. It just shows how manipulatably you
will be, if you get an ego-friendly handling.
What you may call "attention", what you are
again and again demanding with your Spiritual
Pampers Test Dummy behaviour, is just poison
for the human individuality in my book.
The strongest and most addictive drug I know.
The reason for me to call you a junkie.


Another living master:
"Give the ego what it wants,
and it will give you everything it has.
Don't give the ego what it wants,
and it will show you what it is."


Hans, you are simply showing what you are.
Yet to become aware of it, is your job
and only your job.









Sun Jan 9, 2005 1:16 am
 

back

Message #18347 of 31852

Re: [�-:)] PLEASE ONE OR TWO FRIENDS OF N0BY COME FORTH



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" <mail@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "jivano_kabir" <michael@k...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > True understanding usually comes after personal experience.
>
>
> [ Is there any other experience?]

Copies, copies, copies.

Even these indirect claims to have great and
unique individual experiences can be heard in
and after each Satsang a thousand times.

Only individuals can have experiences,
meer product of their environments are just
that: a product. A more or less mechanical
product.


Now be happy: you got attention.












Sat Jan 8, 2005 5:03 pm
 

back

Message #18346 of 31852

Re: A reference (in German) / http://www.straightdope.com/art/1979/790413.gif



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" <mail@h...> wrote:
> Hail Michael,
>
> Good article.
> Again, nothing new.

Newness (like beauty) lies in the eyes of the recipient.

For me it's new, if I answer to you,
otherwise I would have given up years ago.

I could repeat myself again and again,
say what I have to say in thousand words,
tenthousands omissions and hundredthousand
of gestures.

Yet, it would do no good, I have to keep
quiet most of the time and ignore you,
because you use each and every answer to
blow up even more and become bigger and bigger.

But, man, that's your problem.

I'm totally happy being boring.






Sat Jan 8, 2005 4:57 pm
 

back

Message #18314 of 31852


http://www.goosespot.net/cgi-bin/talks/lib03.cgi?read=17






Thu Jan 6, 2005 5:16 pm
 

back

Message #18312 of 31852

[°-:)] [°-:)] Re: der zeitgeist (was blah blah)



> and the tao - like the seasons - is cyclic.

Yeah. Weather looks like spring is coming.

Do snowflakes also resist melting?

--

N0by-list is a refugium for snowflakes
who don't like to melt. A freezer with
big signs at the door:

"Free Freezer!"
"No moderation!"
"Stay as you are!"
"Do what you want!"
"Live all your tiny crystals!"

Perfect.

The little sign at the rear is
disturbing only the over-cautious
flakes: "2000 W SIEMENS micromave".

The clever flakes form snowballs,
create and populates email-lists,
look after friends, followers,
supporters, acknowledgers or at
least enemies to clump together with.

N0by has allready managed to make a
snowball of 400 flakes. But I'm sure,
he is aiming at the number 1000.
That will make him the biggest flake
ever. He thinks.

--

First and only rule: DON'T DROP.

--

How to get ENLIGHTENED
(a scientific experiment):
http://kabir.de/enlightenment.html

--

Aren't we all think skinned grapes ?
What might Eric thin about this experiment?
Questions over questions ...

--

I'm a thinner and God is my painter.











Thu Jan 6, 2005 2:37 pm
 

back

Message #18306 of 31852

Eric:

Re: The tiny nothingness that Mr. Pride claims to be.



A nice typo:

> [...] to wallop [...] is an essential work on a teacher.

was originally:

> [...] to wallop [...] is an essential work of a teacher.

But of course both variants have their truth. .o)







Wed Jan 5, 2005 9:46 pm
 

back

Message #18305 of 31852

Re: SORRY GUYS MY ANGER IS GONE



Hi N0by,

> Esther has passed her examinations with
> a note satisfiable (befriedigend)

Oh, she did it, that's GREAT!
That's really worth an holiday.
If you want, send her my congratulation.
I don't have her email, otherwise I'd
do it myself.

Gratulation, Esther !






Wed Jan 5, 2005 9:19 pm
 

back

Message #18304 of 31852

Re: The tiny nothingness that "i am"



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" wrote:
>
> lighten up dude my ego is not disguised i just said "my ego is
> exactly what it is".
> Disguised from what to what?
> you're funny, we sure don't share much of common vocabulary or
> weltanschauung, before starting maybe we should deconstruct a bit
> what you think my beliefs are.

Go on. Do it.

While Mr. Pride thinks what to write to come
out more glorified, perhaps some lines from
a living master may help to clarify what is going on.

"The more a person gets it, the harder it is neccessary for
them to be whacked. And that is allways done out of love.
It is easy not to do such things, to praise and encourage.
That it easy for a teacher to do. But to wallop people, who,
in a way, are getting it, is an essential work on a teacher.
Because only a teacher can do it. Your friends can't do it,
your lovers can't do it. You won't listen to them, they won't
hit you deep enough."


So, Mr. Pride, you won't listen to me or anybody else in
this email lists. And to get walloped is also out of question
for such an educated man like you, who is allready competent
to deconstruct other people's beliefes.


What remains? To wallop yourself?
To deconstruct your own believes?

I've an easy technique for you:
fuck yourself.








Wed Jan 5, 2005 9:09 pm
 

back

Message #18294 of 31852

Re: The tiny nothingness that "i am"



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" wrote:
> try to read it dude.

STINKING POLITICS disguised as wisdom.
EGO disguised as spirituality.
MIND behaving as if it's the master.
GREY and COLORLESS.
Like you.

You didn't even miss life, Eric,
you are going away from it,
against it. High time to have
your batteries reloaded
in Dr. Frankenstein's clinic.

Happy new year.
May you get what you want. .o)






Wed Jan 5, 2005 11:49 am
 

back

Message #18292 of 31852

Re: The tiny nothingness that "i am"



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" <ericparoissien@g...>
wrote:
> as a moderator of [...]

politics.






Wed Jan 5, 2005 11:33 am
 

back

Message #18291 of 31852

Re: program running undisturbed



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "angellucida" <angellucida@y...> wrote:
> the other day i heard:
> enlightenment is [...]
> what do you think about it?

Not interested, thank you.






Wed Jan 5, 2005 11:32 am
 

back

Message #18289 of 31852

[°-:)] Re: der zeitgeist (was blah blah)

Valerie:

Hi Beauty,

> politics and religions = social clubs

Too simple for my taste. Why did you leave
the "family" out? Don't want to be reminded?

> [...] you said something
> along the lines of muslims, christians, jews, buddhists,
> etc - and it is within those social constructs which in essence
> invent props and nomenclatures and past histories,
> which set up boundaries to the experience of the *immediate*.
> wisdom is immediate. 'beingness' is *immediate*.
> when you have to stop and think about it, might miss it!
> (don't *blink*)
> :-)

This was allready a lot more than blinking. :)
How to talk that much about non-blinking
without blinking? That's like J. Krishnamurti
talking about not thinking.

For me, this discussion is not philosophical
or about what reality is, or how one could/should
behave. I look at the person who makes the statements,
try to imagine, what inner state might result in
those opinions and attitudes.

With your postings I'm getting the idea, that you
put much energy into the outside. Even with a slight
taste of blaming - but only a slight one.
I don't mean, that this is wrong - who I am to say
what is right or wrong for you? I just do you
the favour to describe what I recognize, when
I turn towards you.

Take your fotos for example: totally interested in
details, focused on finding beauty in little things -
a snail on the path minding it's own business, being
absorbed in it's own universe, yet a part of the whole
wood.

Immediatedly I get interested in stuff like:
how does the photographer feel, who was doing
these pictures, who has chosen those views,
has chosen not to show a single human or man-made
thing for example? Not this therapeutical stuff,
analysing, looking for faulty things to "correct"
(as if a faulty thing was not complete) - just a
"tuning in". Has she photographed herself
in this snail? Looks like for me. Did she go
into the woods to get something healed, which
was broken? Goes into outside details, because
inside was temporarily too much for the mind?
Yet the same person hangs around at very noisy
places in the net, so the situation is not
stable, not final. A transit.

Reminds me of Sheela after the ranch plus prison.
She was living (as she told) alone in an Eucalyptus
wood in Portugal, only once a day a person came to
bring food. Half a year alone in the beautiful woods.
Then she knew what she wanted to do (in her case:
make a home for the elder) and came out to do it.


> > No, not finished, then.
>
> why?
> are you one of those who thinks one has to be
> german to be finished?
> lol

I'm germane to myself. The rest is natural
growth/shrinkage/develeopment/life/death.

> yeah. i miss my weekly massages alrighty!
> so - yer telling me that there's a *core* - like an apple
> or pear?
> same as 'soul', no?

Yes. But not the concept of "soul", not
the Christian conscience-conditiong "soul",
which is not going to heaven if thou eat
that pudding or fuck neighbour's wife.
The reality behind the word.
The human reality.

> yegods,

Why bring god in, if 'soul' is left out?
God used as a straw man to avoid looking
into oneself?

I have not found anything like "The God",
but my "soul"/"buddha"/"core"/"center" is
reality for me, the whatever-it-is, which
is leading my life, the Khidr in my life,
the whatever-it-is which I'm more and more
becoming (more and more emotionally, intellectually
and exitsantially identifying with). Nothing
romantic, nothing complicated or "esoteric",
nothing nice and easy, just how things are,
how I am made, how everything and everybody,
how the whole looks like being made.

Nothing Alaskan,
nothing German,
but germane.
The shoe fits,
the show also.


Michael
--
Pictures are not reality,
but reality creates pictures.

Regarding "religion"
I call myself an atheist,
or at most an agnostic.







Wed Jan 5, 2005 11:29 am
 

back

Message #18278 of 31852

Re: The doors of Nirvana



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, Caminamos <caminamosnet@y...> wrote:
> Peace is achieved by living peacefully: moving
> ourselves, speaking and thinking more slowly. Those
> who cultivate peace open for themselves and the others
> the doors of Nirvana.
>
> http://www.wewalk.net

Bullshit.

If you were right, no Samurai, no Kung Fu monk
could ever have been peacefull. Yet in meditation,
the fastest movements are possible.

Those who cultivate become cultivated.

No interest in your "nirvana".
I love Tomatoes, but only the true ones.

And I usually eat them...











Tue Jan 4, 2005 10:31 pm
 

back

Message #18277 of 31852

Re: der zeitgeist (was blah blah)



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, v <beatha@a...> wrote:

> then we can agree that the various denominations
> are- in effect - *social clubs*, replete with
> relative rhetorics and conditioning.

Guantanamo Bay - a social club ?
That's ok with me, but that makes "society" into
a prison, into an individuality-killer.


> take down all the boundaries and barriers and
> wa-la - itsa all the SAME "god"... the same "existance"

The same? Why the same? And why bring "god" in?
And your statement implies that we have put up
a lot of barriers and boundaries between ourselves
and existence.


> dems and repubes [...]
> "Manifest Destiny" = "GOD wants me to do it,
> because I am right and
> must annhialate or sublimate the infidel..."
> eh?
> same ol' same ol'?

Time to clean up after that gothic party
which occupied the last 5000 years.

He:
"Some drunken pig yesterday night
puked right over my shirt!"
She:
"Probably the same pig who
did shit into your trowsers."


> > [...] meet a living master in person.
> how do you know i haven't?

Job finished?

> I am alaskan.
> And I have aboriginal blood.
> so i am twice removed.
> you speak "anglo" better yerself!

No, not finished, then.


> when i was rolfed and "rebirthed" -

Same experience here.

> pockets of energy from past forgotten
> events were released
> - very surprising!
> we hold our information in our bodies.
> wow.

More possible with discipline.
Deeper work than rolfing and
rebirthing. Core can be reached.

> they say -
> 'Those who CAN - DO...
> Those who CANNOT - TEACH.'

That's nice talk.
Fits 99.9% .o)


Blessing






Tue Jan 4, 2005 10:22 pm
 

back

Message #18276 of 31852

Re: SORRY PIGS MY ANGER IS GONE



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paroissien" wrote:

> I hear you Kabir but let's keep simple and in the simple
> context of n0by entering your livingroom and imposing
> his rule isn't it a little errr ... german?

OK simple and straight forward:

1.)
Don't you have enough intelligence to prune
the quoting of my post to such an extend, that
the context can be seen, and yet not the whole
digital bullshit is repeated again and again?

1a)
The fact that you don't do that, is an indication
of your anger and your wish to piss at everybody trowsers.

2)
The context is you and me. No one else needed.

3.)
If you take an electronic exchange medium
for the livingroom, where has your sense
of reality gone, Eric? Down the drain?
Like ... your trust?


> ok Napoleon's soldiers behaved like pigs in Prussia and France
> massacred the population of Algeria only 45 years ago ... but it
> does not give us every right.

Turned into a lawyer recently, Eric?
Just to have a chance to fight?
And what fights are these - about
injustice done decades ago?
Need some actual ammunition?
Or afraid to enter the current millenium?

Where has the "peace" gone, which
you expressed just some hours ago?


> Do you have a list Kabir or had one?

If I had one, I would simply throw a troll
out. Ask N0by, he was once on a list,
which I maintained, and didn't obey the
rules (as usual by crossposting into
other lists). He got one warning
and then he was unsubscibed. I still remember
very well how angry and stinking he
behaved because of that. .o)
He didn't even try to re-enter
(which would have been possible),
he just decided to live his pissedness
(and aimed well to piss back, I tell you).

Fact is, he missed that chance...

And you will miss yours, Eric, if you think
everything happing to you is about someone else

............ than you...................


Just go on expressing your anger.
No other person can do that.
Because it's in you.

And be happy, if the others hits back,
because then you can even express more
of it and need not feel guilty. .o)


What's a pig called in France?
A Napolean, educated, intellectual pig?









Tue Jan 4, 2005 9:44 pm
 

back

Message #18275 of 31852

Re: one liar.



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "adithya_comming" wrote:

> What is world?
>
> The world is ..."WHAT IS" playing the game of
> ..."What can Be"!

No, sir. This is wishful thinking.
There is only what is - including
our illusions about it (which are
what they are - illusions, echoes
of former traumatas and tries to
escape from the present).


> What happens at Death ...?
>
> "What has become" ...returns back as ... "What Is"!

Try it first. Walk your talk.


> The game has ended, ...the Player comes Home.

No. Declaring the world a play, and your self
the player is insufficient to make your self real.
Never played a computer-game, where one of the
virtual characters claimed to be the player?

No?
Well...
You are that....
virtual character .....
but you are not the player ........

Otherwise you would be able to tell
when and how you started the game.


Kabir
--
In the game of life
. walk-throughs and
........ cheat keys
........... are for
............ lusers

Nirvana,
The Last Nightmare,
is not an Unreal Tournament







Tue Jan 4, 2005 8:59 pm
 

back

Message #18265 of 31852

Re: [°-:)] oh hornetly...



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:
> > > how long are you a sannyasin?
> > does it make any difference?
>
> does it make any difference for you
> if you are drunk or sober?

Sannyasins are those, who prefer to be drunken.
Stoned. High. Far-out. Yahoo!

Ali, your life must be very miserable indeed,
if you think to be a Sannyasin (a "monk")
is something special. Or your idea about
being a monk is rather twisted. pfui!

Kabir
--
Thinking with the head is like steering
a taxi by the rear-view mirror.






Tue Jan 4, 2005 5:20 pm

 

back

Message #18264 of 31852

Re: [°-:)] PLEASE ONE OR TWO FRIENDS OF N0BY COME FORTH



Hi Valerie,

the following is NOT about N0by or any list.
It's meant to be about you - as seen from my standpoint.

You wrote:

> i see this- your "antler-bashing" as related to the fact
> that no one here can even have a decent interchange without
> "osho". I keep tryin to understand [...]

True understanding usually comes after personal experience.
Understanding about conditioning comes after being in it
PLUS after having come out of it.

Trying to understand one conditioning still being in
another is like a discussion between a Christian,
a Moslem, an Hindi and a Buddhist about God's existence.

> - but - no matter what 'osho' says - his seeming-
> (ex?)sannayasins keep fighting ...

No Matter what Mr. Bush says, DEMs and REPS keep fighting
bitterly between themselves in public, expecting (i suppose)
that any arguments from REPs are representative of Bush himself
or any from DEMs are the opposite. Is this president so
important as to be center-stage always? Do we need three
idiots to tell us, that we want to help the tsunami victims?
Do we need Osho to tell us that we want love and acknowledgement
(and a Rolls Royce)?


> having read a bit of his discourses, i cannot (yet)
> imagine that such ongoing senseless bickering is
> some sort of 'spiritual teaching'.

Spiritual teaching happens primarily on the energetical,
non-verbal level. If you want to understand what happened
(and if and only if this experience is in your book),
you need to meet a living master in person.

> NOT that i have anything more valuable to offer than
> my objective observations...

It's typical for the western, aglo-American (US-) conditioning
to assume that their view is "objective". Just to give
you a personal example about what I call conditioning.


> *peace - let 'de-constructionism' LIVE!*
> (or ELSE...)

Peace is not possible as long as the subject is conditioned,
because each conditioning creates tension between the
individual and the conditioning. And each conditioning
also represses this tension and pushes it deeply into the
subconscious psychosomatic layers.

To take ideas and concepts for real, alive things is
typical of conditioned person (a meme-robot).

Sannyasins love to speak about Love and Osho and Enlightenment,
politicians love to speak about peace, seeker love to speak
about truth, US-citizen love to speak about freedom.

We humans obviously love to speak not only about what we
don't have, but especially speak about that in strongest,
most wishful and romantic tones, against which we ourselves
are the barrier.


Greetings
Michael






Tue Jan 4, 2005 5:07 pm
 

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Message #18260 of 31852

Re: SORRY GUYS MY ANGER IS GONE



--- "Eric Paroissien" wrote:

> [...] i have no intention to bother anyone.

You mean: no conscious one.
Or have you been aware about your
anger before it surfaced?
But it was present -
I can see it in your foto.


> n0by is my friend as always.

To heal from a certain illness, it is often
usefull, to bring that same illness into the ill
body - a vaccination, a serum, an homeopathic approach.


N0by-list is an example to apply this principle to
the realm of mental insanity. There is no place on earth,
which I happen to know of, where so many so deeply disturbed
souls play the therapist, guru, master, seeker.

If that doesn't help you, Eric, to feel you anger about
yourself, then nothing else will do.

Wether N0by is the most ill or most sane person
of that illustrious gathering, is his job and
freedom to look after, IMO.


My feeling, N0by, when I read or hear you being
what you may call "polite": you must be ill.
But, perhaps, you only mirror? Or we are ALL
intended to be vaccinations to each other?

Mental doctor-games?


Greetings
Kabir
--
Per aspera ad Opel.






Tue Jan 4, 2005 1:34 pm
 

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Message #18244 of 31852

Re: Join group for spiritual material truths and liberation reality



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "smarty" <luvfit@h...> wrote:
> Please join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Emptiness. This group is
> dedicated to SPIRITUALITY and EMPTINESS. From time to time Pages
> from Gurdjief Ouspensky and Nicolls books will be posted their
> serially. Other materials like Vasisthas Yoga, Geeta, Astavakra
> Samhita, Upanishads, Sufism, Tantra, Yoga, Mantra, Gyan, Vimalkirti
> Sutra, Osho material, Ching Hai, Adyashanti, Krishnamurti, Chopra,
> Nisargdutta, Thakar Singh, Ravishankar, Meher Baba, Watts, Devang
> Dattani etc. hundreds of masters material will also be posted there.
> ONLY LIBERATING. JOIN AND SEE!


Doesn't it enlarge my dick?
Or at least enlarge my aura?
Open my heart?


Smarty, if reading (or at least copying) all those old scriptures
hasn't liberated you from spiritual greed and acknowledgement-
grubbing, how are they going to liberate anybody else?









Mon Jan 3, 2005 5:40 pm
 

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Message #18240 of 31852

Re: for the blind like me / LOOK



Greeting, Mr. van der Gugten,

it's interesting to see, how strongly we cling to
the idea of producibility. In German producibility
(Machbarkeit) has the same linguistic root as "power"
(Macht) and "making" (machen).

> As far as I remember, the first time that you give a source.

The first time you remember.

But you are right in a way: I refrain from giving sources,
especially when I'm talking with people who are "seizers"
for my feeling. This "seizing" attitude, this idea about
"everything is producable" is very strong in this group -
is very strong in the modern spiritual scene in deed.


> A newspaper article, with an enormous amount of questionmarks,
> did you notice?

You are interested in opinions? Then why are you not interested
in the opinion-creator and in the process of how opinions manifest?


Basically the tsunami situation creates feelings, in the people
not directly involved feelings of helplessness.

Helplessness is tried to overcome by doing something.

If it's not possible to do something (more at the moment)
the mind tries to evade into past (how was it possible?)
or future (what to do to avoid it in the future?) or switches
to agression (blaming).

Yet the natural way would have been not to go into the mind at all
and withdraw from the shores in due time. But it was not possible
for most persons to recognize the coming danger because they were
to much occupied in and with their minds.


Mind hates to feel helpless, yet it itself causes so many deaths
because it dominates our lives and thus hinders us to "hear the
tsunami coming". By avoiding helplessness one avoids contact
with the higher self. And everybody could have the contact
when even animals have it.

The idea that "A lot of animals have skills that we don't have"
is just an excuse in my opinion. If we would live in the present,
we would have every skill that we need, but of course that would
mean to give up our self-determination, our beloved idea of
makability, our beloved and mutually supported self-hynosis of
being in power. And it's irrelevant, wether we believe we could
dominate the world, control the forces of nature or we believe we
could improve ourselves and make ourselves aware.

And it's irrelevant what we say and write about it,
because we are irrelevant - not germane.

Except the Germans of cause .o)


and "make" the growth of our awareness, that's irrelevant.






Mon Jan 3, 2005 4:24 pm
 

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Message #18210 of 31852

for the blind like me

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/12/30/quake.animals.reut/index.html






Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:31 am

 

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Message #18209 of 31852

[°-:)] Re: [°-:)] Tsunami killed 100000 people, but... not the animals



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:
> No i am not a tanker.

A tank, then?

> i only can say [the animals] have a better alarm-system than
> human beings [...]

Have we lost it or are we ignoring it?






Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:06 am
 

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Message #18208 of 31852

Re: Tsunami killed 100000 people, but... arrogance is blind



--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" <mail@h...> wrote:
> The human bodies are
> mixed in with dead animals like dogs, fish, cats and goats," said
> marine colonel Buyung Lelana, head of an evacuation team in
> Lhokseumawe in Sumatra's Aceh province.

In the reservation, where animals can move freely
on their own, no single dead animal was found.

In Japan, birds stop singing and cats start crying
some few minutes before an earthquake. Then, when the
cats start disappearing, one can be sure, that it's
going to be an heavy one. After the earthquake, birds
remain silent - when they start singing again, one
can be sure, that the danger is over.


Every one of us writes what she/he thinks and how
he/she sees the world. In a way we all write for
ourselves. "arrogance is blind" was your addition
to the picture.

To Google in the internet is like Satsang-hopping:
finally you remain the one to choose what's relevant
and what's not. That attitude is inherently closed
towards insights, which are in opposition to your
existing conditioning. No essential change possible.

You only prove yourself, I only prove myself.

Yet - some animals cry before an earthquake
and some become silent. While humans keep
on quarreling as if nothing is going to change
ever.






Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:57 am


 

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 :->} STINKING POLITICS disguised as wisdom.
EGO disguised as spirituality.
MIND behaving as if it's the master.
GREY and COLORLESS.
Like you.