| Sat May 8, 2004 7:53 pm | |
| Just an answer bduval2000 | Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:53 pm |
[°-:)] Re: [°-:)] Tsunami killed 100000 people, but... not the animals
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:
> No i am not a tanker.
A tank, then?
> i only can say [the animals] have a better alarm-system than
> human beings [...]
Have we lost it or are we ignoring it?
Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:06 am
Re: [°-:)] Tsunami killed 100000 people, but...
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:
> the reason is simple,
> animals don't make a fuss
> out of dying and living
Then there would be dead animals
in the national park Yala, about
which I was speaking. But as there
was no dead animal found, the animals
had indeed been interested to live.
http://www.rp-online.de/public/article/nachrichten/journal/
katastrophe/ausland/todesflut/73486
As usual you claim to understand
and that everything is simple.
And as usual you miss totally.
This attitude of believing to
know but in reality knowing far
less than "normal" people (or animals
for that argument) is typical of
Sannyasins - it's the result of Oshos
teaching technique to blow up the ego
with his lectures.
I hope that you have at least a satellite
supported navigation system in your taxi,
because you would certainly land in Pune
if someone wants to go to the Frauenkirche.
Ali, your stubbornness and cantankerousness
hinders your natural intelligence to function.
During the years which I happen to know you,
your (thank godness) rare postings have become
more and more stupid.
Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:30 pm
... but not a single dead animal has been found.
What are humans missing?
What kind of selection process is this?
Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:14 am
Re: OSHO EXPLAINS THE COMING CRISIS ?
Words and ideas and opinions are like dry leafs on water.
They swirl around, gather in one corner, form faces of
animals or men, pile up on one spot, depart from each other
in another. Some form BIG LETTERS, some form small hearts.
And in this corner of the river a lot of turn-out pages
from books have also accumulated. Upstream, many years
ago an old Indian used to throw leafes into the river
to show his children how the flow of the water determines
where they would move to. Now those leafes are printed into
many books, and the children use to rip out pages, throw
them at each other or sit at the river bank and dream about
their Daddy while they copy his movements.
Dry leaves, paper pages, and old shoe now and then -
whatever it is, the flow of the water determines where
they finally end. Veet Tom, when he gave you the name
"Beyond Old Shoe", do you really think, he meant YOU,
old leather?
He meant the flow, which carries you.
Do you think, when some leaf travels from one heap to the
other, that an exchange has happened? That your heap of
dry leafes turns into the flow, because a page was added
to it, where the old guy had spoken about "The Flow",
had added great leafes to the river many miles upstream?
Time to quote, time to add some leafes.
You all here love to be quoted, don't you?
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "veetthomas" <veetthomas@y...> wrote:
> Hi n0by-friends,
>
> you may have asked yourself:
> 'Didn't HE say something about the
> coming crisis ?
> What was was it ? Earthquakes and
> whatever - wars and so on ... ?
>
> Forget it - it was all about meditation !
> But if you haven't got his works on your
> bedsite locker - here are some excerpts:
>
> Just for the curiosity - not to blame anyone
> for looking at Osho as a prophet, or just
> knowing him better - just because I was
> again remembering - and cared to find
> out ... maybe for you too ?
>
> Have a good - or a better new year !
> May you want to go deeper and more
> often into meditation - and all else you want
> and can do in your own life - and with joy ...
>
> Loveet
Happy New Leaf, Dear LoveLace.
Kabir
--
Forgive me, but a page with
"LoveShoe" was not in my book.
Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:41 am
[°-:)] [°-:)] [°-:)] Re: [°-:)] quackers!
envious, Ali, envious?
envious, i, envious
~ envious i envious
~~ enviou | enviou
~~~ envio | envio
~~~~ envio|envio
~~~~~ envi|envi
~~~~~~ envious
Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:03 pm
Re: JUDGMENT
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, Abbot Street <digidini@y...> wrote:
> JUDGMENT
>
>
> "How shall I forgive others?"
>
> "If you never condemned, you would never need to forgive."
>
> Anthony de Mello, SJ
Fine, let's train that in practise.
I do the condemnation and you do the forgiving.
> MORSEL:
>
> Judgment and love are opposites.
> From one come all the sorrows of the world.
> But from the other comes the peace of God Himself.
>
> --A Course In Miracles
Love is not made ore makeable by man, so any course
about it is a waste of time, money and mind
(except for the course-leaders of course).
-- Kabir, A Course in Normality
Have you nothing to say from yourself?
Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:48 pm
[°-:)] Re: [°-:)] quackers!
Funny, Goofey,
when you talk about anything positive, it is YOU,
your quest, your enligtenment etc.
Otherwise it's not you, it's something you want to
get rid of, it's the "falsity of the self", like
"Mom, Mom! I didn't do it! Neighbors cat was it!"
Man, if you are not your self, then who should be it?
Bhagwans main technique with people like us was it,
to blow up the ego, the self, to such dimensions
that we could really not bear it any longer.
Well, you seem to be a tough enough guy to go on for ever...
Have fun!
And take a break now and then from your quest...
It's good to be persistant. But it's also good
to distinguish between wall and door. Especially
after having tried to go thru it for 60 years by now...
Your Buddha must be laughing his ass off,
while he watches you going for something which
cannot be reached.
Oh my GOD! Have mercy with me!
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^
Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:31 am
Re: [°-:)] quackers!
George,
> Christian is a phoney substitute for spiritual growth and
> if you are still into that then you are dreaming.
Such a short sentence and what a long life lies in it!
So you have grown (or are even grown up?) spiritually.
And that not only phoney, but sincere, deep, really
... whatever your opposite of phoney might be.
Or haven't you ever thought about that "silent" might
be the right opposite to "phoney"? Have you?
I don't mean the Osho "silence" - tenthousand raising their
arms and shouting "YAHOO!!!". No, I just mean ...............
But then, you would not call it spiritual growth, I bet,
shrinkage, yes, but growth? And you would not boast about
it, would not be proud about it, presumably.
This "growth"-idea is a concept of the mind. Even spirituality
had to be marketed and sold to the mind, so some unknown
positive thinker must have come up with the concept of
"spiritual growth" - like the entrance-sign to the Dachau
concentration camp says "Work makes free".
There is no such thing as "spiritual growth". The only
thing possible is probably "ego shrinkage". But - would
we have gone there, if it was clear for us, that we were
going to become less, going to get less when we accepted
the Name and the Mala? Would we? Satyananda perhaps, cause
he was giving up much when he stayed in Poona right from the
very beginning. But we - you and me - would we?
Satyananda lets somebody say in one of his books about
"spiritual growth" (in an interview with a Commune member):
"Yes, it was clear to me, that I would loose everything over time -
everything. Everything, which defines me as an Ego. It was clear
to me, that I would loose my past, my masks, my personality,
my Ego. So, naturally, I often trembled with fear."
Why did Satyananda had had that printed?
Because he was experiencing the opposite?
> Christian is a phoney substitute for spiritual growth
> and if you are still into that then you are dreaming.
The "growth" seems to be your focal point, george.
But you are right: if one is still into that, then
he is dreaming. Be he Christian or Jew or whatever.
And especially if he is a Sannyasin.
Similiar:
> You can play around with your little concepts of this and that
> and what ever but that will not make you enlightened.
So you are enlightened. How else would you know what it was?
And not only that, you also know what makes one enlightened
and what not. A happening, which the old wise men describe as
"un-caused" and "un-causable", and you know how to make it.
Well, to be linguistically correct:
you said you know how NOT to make it.
Plausible. But false.
Paper-Tiger doesn't stop a forest fire.
I think, that was enough to show my point, that the Sannyas-
believes are not more intelligent than the Christian ones.
To the Christian's credit I must say: their master is dead
for 2000 years by now. Their master's words have not been taped
or printed in original. It's natural, that they miss a little,
go astray here and there. But the Sannyasins?
We even believe that we are not believers. What a trip!
And mock about the Christians for following a dead master,
celebrating dead ceremonies, and believing truth can be
contained in a book. While we think we can contain truth
in our mind. And think we are better. And subconsciously,
deep down, think that we know what enlightenment is.
Only because we have heard the word so often. Same with
the word "energy" or "silence" or - beware - "meditation".
Kabir
Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:58 pm
Re: LIFE FORCE breaks through - beyond logic+mind!
N0by,
> Dear Kabir, dear readers,
> http://www.n0by.de/n0/ka/ka35.htm
>
> is there any greater joy in life,
> to know a friend - besides
> the mysteries with a friend
> from other gender?
Yes. For example to know yourself.
> Yes, my beloved friend,
> I removed your pages!
Really? Up to now you just proofed your
own inability and delete only one link.
> How can your truth
> better proofed?
Only lies and liars need "proof"
(as well as "belief").
Others just use their own insights.
Kabir
--
Allways ready to lend one hand ... CLAP!
I wonder what the speed of sound is
on the way from me to you.
Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:16 pm
Re: Kundalini breaks through - beyond logic
N0by, you are lying.
Not good.
Take the pages off your
spiritual "Bild-Zeitung" site,
which contain material from me.
Kabir
Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:31 am
Re: the chaotic commune / crosspost arrived / finally
Hallo Haenschen,
sorry, but you will have
to tackle your own resistance.
It's your mind which is in
fighting mood, hence you
will have to handle it.
For years and years by now I've mainly been in a similiar situation,
first defending my little personal self-image, as if it was something
valuable, later being direct and upsetting to anyone coming along. You
cannot imagine how it feels, when this is slowly, slowly passing away
naturally.
Enjoy. After all, seeing you angry and in attack feels more authentic
then your former "Ain't I your loving teddy bear?" games with all that
jokes and quotes from the internet.
Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:24 am
Re: [°-:)] welcome (partly) in reality, Valerie
Valerie said:
> i've pretty much noticed that everyone thinks i'm a TROLL;
You behaved pretty like it. I thought and still think, that
this was just a phase of strong and illogical and unsocial
expression - which is regularily triggered by Kundalini
beginning to raise. This way Energy starts to clean the system
from "educated" behaviour-patterns (like having to be friendly,
having to answer when asked something etc.). At the same time
the unsocial behaviour will get negative responses from
others, thus the social-dependence (ego) is reduced, too.
Later you have the unsocial beaviour at your fingetips should
you feel the need for it, but are no longer reduced to only that.
So don't be astonished if it comes again in certain situations
or towards certain people; it may then go away as fast as it
comes. The overall, final result is more freedom for you and others.
A "broader spectrum of expression" so to say.
Not to be taken as an excuse but as an explanation.
All velly natulal, missis, and velly plactical
flom the viewpoint of the enelgy. ,O)
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:03 pm
welcome (partly) in reality, Valerie
valerie, I read from you:
> ANY "mentors" around?
> because I most certainly need one
> (in case no one notices).
Interesting. The moment I started reading your posts
I recognized, that you should better be left alone
though Kundalini raising symptoms where allready all
over your posts. Perhaps you had had enough of therapy
for the rest of your lives? .o)
Now you say, you "most certainly need a mentor". Hhhmmm.
What an u-trun. So the Energy has become stronger?
That's good IMO.
Too strong for you to handle it?
That's not so good
(I mean trying to "handle" it).
And what should this mentor do then?
Help you control it again?
That would be as if a midwife helps you to push back the
baby instead of helping you to deliver it.
In some early stages of pregnancy that might be
the right thing to do, but in your case I think,
that might be a little late, don't you agree?
And how should this "most certainly needed" mentor
help you? If you (or: as you?) allready know what you
need and what to do, then she/he is not needed.
First and last of all make yourself ready for it.
From my experience I know, that sincery seeker get
sicere helpers, egocentric meet egocentric ones,
egoistic meet egoistic and stubbornness meets
stubborness. What might be yours like?
Also from my experience I'd say:
Look at yourself, prepare yourself as best as you can
by being honest to yourself about where you stand
and what you know and what not. Ruthless honest towards
and about yourself.
And prepare for somebody else deciding what you need.
During the sessions with my spiritual friends (there
were two, first a female, later a male), she/he decided
when I needed to go to the toilet or drink some water.
And of course they decided when the session would end -
not seldomly when the sun came up again after a long,
intense night.
You think you could manage to create that much TRUST?
The more you can trust the more trustworthy will be the
trainer, whom you finally get.
Ah, yes: as soon as it's decided who trains you
(decided not by you, but by the trainer with your
allowance), then trust only this one trainer.
Listen only to this one person. Only one. Not two.
Don't even trust your own mind,
if it's against the trainer. because part of her/his
job will be to bring up the suppressed stuff in you,
and this Pandora-stuff will influence your judgement
immensely (and unnoticable for you).
Good luck
Michael
Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:55 pm
Re: the chaotic commune / crosspost arrived / finally
Hand Guck in de Luften wrote:
> Told you before, it's boring, how sober I am at the moment.
You didn't get it?
The drug you use IMO is attention, atttention, attttention.
atttttention, attttttention, atttttttention ....
Important, important, important...
> Sorry, did I misunderstand?
> Weren't you the one tasting it all the time?
How intelligent you are, Hans.
> Esp 'chasm of fire' ."
That's a book about attention-withdrawal, mind you.
Better give it away ASAP.
Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:36 pm
Re: the chaotic commune / crosspost arrived /
> Yes Erhard, you are very important, indeed.
>
> hans.
You look great, Hans! Your eyes sooo shiny!
It's a pleasure - no, what do I say, it's
a blessing to meet you!
Yes...
... [deep breath] ...
What was it? Mushies? Adam? Mary J.?
...
Ahem, :-)
would you mind let me taste it, too? :-))
Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:43 am
Re: [°-:)] Truth has a divine copy protection
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "George Maddux" <itisthisness@e...>
wrote:
> hey did you ever get a juicer?
I had one, some time ago. I LOVED the fresh apple juice,
you know the one with the foam on top, which you will have
to drink immediatedly when it comes out of the juicer,
because one minute later it has allready started to become
brown from the air's oxygen and tastes less "juicy".
But it was not practical to clean the filter where the rest of
the apple went. Somehow it got lost, I think and I don't miss
it (except for the fresh apple juice).
Breville? Hmmm..- thanks for the tip.
Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:32 am
Re: Osho lied. That was his profession.
Dear bullshit-emmitter, dear bullshit readers,
N0by said:
> Both liars, Pramartha and C.C., work hard,
> to advertise better lies - miles behind mine!
The world is full of politicians,
look at yourself, N0by.
> Only Kabir left lies behind:
> http://www.n0by.de/n0/ka
Flattery from N0by?
Please shit unto your own table.
N0by, how would you know something about another
person, if you had not experienced something similiar?
And regarding lies - if you had experienced your own lies,
I doubt that you would make such "false advertisements"
about it (wether regarding yourself or another person).
Having to look at oneself is not something to boast about.
N0by, you are great in exposing other people's lies.
Kabir
Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:06 pm
Re: [°-:)] Truth has a divine copy protection
George wrote:
> Jivano- Hey if everyone stop quoting others and copying others
> .... there would be no chattering on the list and it may not be
> any noise at all and that could be frightening for the most of
> us-What to do then?....... tweedle our thumbs and contemplate
> our little navel?----or go
> within and get silent ? -
My God, George, can you only think in extremes?
Totally black and totally white only?
Either chewing somebody's ear away or sitting silently
until death?
And then, is it sooooo grazy difficult to accept, that
I was talking to and about other persons? To persons, who were
overflowing the list with theoretical quotes down from the heaven,
just to make themselves look as if they understood it?
MUST you take everything personal, George?
Or ... do you just need an excuse to tell something youself?
> I remember once drinking beer at a local bar ...
Aha, the latter.
> ... Do you see where i am going with that story?
> Meditate- don't talk about it.
> But then if everyone did that either the conversation would
> never happen and the list would disappear or the few post
> would be short
> and maybe dull maybe, depending on each of our own
> individual experiences-
> but for sure it would be authentic...............
"... dull ... but ... authentic ..." ?
And all that under the cover-up of a "may be" ?
From this paragraph alone it can be seen, that
your social/academic training covers at least 80%
of your personality. And that you have not experienced
a state of 100% authenticity in your life for a long
time, otherwise you would not dream about putting
"dull" and "authentic" into one and the same sentence.
> So take your choice, hear the twice-told -tales of
> someone else other
> than the one telling the story - who has become his
> or her natural self
> again...........
Why is it so goddamn special to be oneself?
Especially in the alternative/esoteric subculture
being "oneself" is regarded more important than being
Bill Gates and the President together. How comes?
> or everyone leaving to become an introvert- maybe
> occassion appearing to share their individual
> experiences of bliss.
Introvert, extrovert, chewing gum, whatever people are,
I feel unconfortable when I experience them as unauthentic.
I, me, mine!
> In zen only experience is the teacher.
"In Zen"?
Where is that?
And where are you?
Kabir
--
If you play Da Goofy, then I'm Da Dagobert.
Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:48 pm
Truth has a divine copy protection
> -- Donated his brain to science before he was done using it.
Valerie and all, better use your brain now,
instead of trying to use the echos
of dead people's brain canned in books
and treatises about other dead people's
brain echos canned in even older books.
The Tao Te King makes only sense in areas
where personal experience and personal
insight exists allready. That's it's beauty.
To all members:
STOP QUOTING OTHERS!
Nobody has ever been born for another one.
Nobody has ever eaten for another one,
pissed for another one, fucked for another one.
Nobody has ever lived for another one.
Nobody will die for you, when your time has come.
STOP COPYING THE PAINTINGS OF OTHERS!
(For training, copying is helpful, but for real life?)
Idiots! Warm-showerers! Understanders!
Hotten-Totten! White-Robe-Brothers! Tax-Payers!
Right-Lane-Drivers! Copy editors! N0by-list quoters!
Talk! Talk! Talk! Copy! Copy! Copy! Quote! Quote! Quote!
Some even talked and quoted about why I was erasing my posts
from this list now and then. DO YOU KNOW BY NOW, WHY??????
OR DO YOU NEED MORE MEDITATION UNTIL THIS ENLIGHTENMENT
ENTERS INTO YOUR GREAT, WONDERFUL MIND?
This is my sort of Sat-Sang, my idea what being with truth
means for me, stupid. Yours, Valerie, is talk, talk, talk,
... etc ... da capo ad infinitum.
Ka
Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:34 pm
[°-:)] Re: Ka n Mu2 conservation!!
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Muthu" <muthukumar.sat@f...> wrote:
> that 'could be'...how can say its intentional
> one when i7m not aware of the intention behind?
So the two of us have agreed upon that you are partly unaware,
of what you are doing and especially why you are doing it.
Now the question remains: what's the percantage between
unawareness and awareness? What would you say?
> looks like perfect, dreaming, sleeping...
> here again i'm not aware of it.
Are you satisfied with this aituation?
If not: how much of your energy (time, money, edurance etc.)
are you ready to spend to improve this situation?
> [about wanting to know how to do meditation] Now, can you
> not recognise the INTENTION behind it?
Yes, I can recognize it. But can you LIVE it,
or is it just TALK?
> i see the wrong words but does it mean you are
> not getting my intention this time, isnt strange,
> OR you want ME to BE CLEAR about what i'm asking?
Very good .o)
> the answer is if I'm clear enuff to know what i want ,
> i wouldnot be asking these WRONG questions.
> so can i ask otherway, what NOT TO do to be in meditation?
Also good. .o)
> [books about loosing weight] hahahhahaha.....here i
> INTENDED to convey, books of no use ;)
Books are very helpful. As can be maps.
The (surface) question is:
Where do you want to be tomorrow?
And another (the basic) question beneath it is:
where are you now?
If we agree, that the present state of the human is
unawareness, do you think, the human is able to
pick the right books, read them in the right way
apply this knowledge consistantly in his life?
Obviously the next step after becoming interested
thru books or tapes would be (and must be?)
a personal encounter, isn't that logical?
And as just one encounter is not enough:
a personal relationship is needed. Roger?
Something where you cannot escape any moment
into your old unawareness. Got it?
Intense enough to make you change you behaviour
- even your unconscious behaviour. ???
I have heard:
A friend of mine went to a meeting with Paul Lowe
in Munich and asked him a question like "it's soo
difficult to stay aware the whole time..."
And Paul answered "If we were alone in a closed room
and I put a gun at your head, ready to shoot you,
wouldn't you be aware each and every second?"
Would you be ready to go into that room with Paul
and the gun? Really?
REALLY?
DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT MEDITATION,
BIG MOUTH?
You are in Japan, there is not a single Zen Monastery
near the place where you live, hence you must ask
questions about meditation via email to people
sitting in Munich?
> [about Osho books] You are almost right, i feel frustrated
> but not felt stupid yet with the books!! but you are doing it..
Exactly.
> i feel frustrated and stupid only when i talk with you...:)
I'm doing as much I can do over this very indirect
communication channel. But that will be not enough
for you.
What was the title of Osho's last book?
How often have you read it? Did you read it at all?
And if so, did you recognize, that he was aware,
that he shall die within months, when he gave that
lectures?
If you were a master with many disciples
and you knew that soon you would die,
what would you do, about what would you talk?
lolll, kabir - questioning
Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:07 am
[°-:)]
=?iso-8859-1?q?[=B0-:)]_=3D=3Fiso-8859-1=3Fq=3F[=3DB0-:)]=5FRe:=5FLiving=5FKabir=5Ffor=5FSatrakshita=3F=3D?=
Muthu,
please quote in a readable way (every netiquette will tell you how),
if you want me to read (and perhaps even answer) your postings.
And clean the Subject from these bullshit interpretations of special
characters, too.
Good luck!
Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:09 am
Re: Fwd: Ramrod recognizes an awakened hara
N0by,
there is no need to describe an "awakened" hara in any way.
First of all the effects are so strong and so "bodily",
that nobody is probably ever going to mis-take it for
(say) the usual "spiritual feelings" after intense
meditations, which are often just phantasies, mild illusions
or projections of religious/spriritual concepts.
To mistake it with anything else is only possible, if the
Hara is not totally open i.e. if it's just a little open.
Most probable explanation then might be some "strange sort of
illness" - because Hara-opening is a psychosomatic phenomenon, the
body is an integral part of it. But when it's really open, the
energy moves your body. For example, there is no room for wishy-
washy explanations, if the hand of an invisible Giant had just
thrown you on the earth and keept you there for some undefined time,
while your spine is electrified joy and the body shakes all over, as
if every cell of it has gone to the dance club.
Secondly, up to now I've never heard or read it to be called "Hara
awakening". That's not how I would describe the feeling and that's
not the energetical happening. "Opening", yes, or "breaking
through", yes, or "removing blocks", "activating the
energy", "falling into the energy" or even "awakening the energy"
yes. If Ramarshi calls it "awakening of the Hara", that's fine with
me - but misleading for people who have not yet experienced it
themselves. The Hara is just like a door, when you are awake, you
open it and step thru. But the door itself is neither "awake", nor
was is "asleep" before - it was just closed/blocked.
Third: the need for explanations vanishes. Open Hara means your
energy goes more into the belly and less into the head than before.
So how to explain a thing which takes away our wish for
explanations? And why explain it then? And who would want to explain
something which is a personal experience?
Ever heard some girls talking about how an orgasm feels like?
How to get there - yes, that's a practical question. But then she
either knows or she doesn't. Explaining it is the consolation price.
Ramarshi is said to have written:
> .....
> An awakened hara you notice when your eyes feel as if they
> are four times bigger than normal. Are your eyes feeling so
> while reading this mail. My eyes are feeling that way just now.
> And more over, you will notice that thoughts and emotions stay
> away from you when your hara is wake. I guess thoughts hate
> the presence of the wakeful hara, just like poor Sakal and
> Tanmayo hate my presence here at your list.
> BTW, when you wonder why Tanmayo does not like my sharing
> here, see the mails i wrote to her at:
> http://www.ramarshi.de
> .....Ramarshi
No comment. Draw your own conclusions.
Kabir
--
Certified trainer for "Dynamic Body Energy Release"
(Bodhidharma's technique for Kundalini-activation
and Hara-opening). 10 years experience.
Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:01 am
[°-:)] =?iso-8859-1?q?[=B0-:)]_Re:_Living_Kabir_for_Satrakshita?=
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Muthu" <muthukumar.sat@f...> wrote:
> >> again right on to the point..GREAT...
Really ???
Understanding means acting, everything else is pretending,
guesswork, dream, illusion ...
Or with the words of a great, small indian:
"To see a snake in the gras and jump is ONE."
> Why to leave the group? and be back again?
> i'm just wondering about deleting one's own posts too.
It's inconsistant, stupid, illogical, isn't it?
But to act consistant, logically and avoid being
seen as stupid, is really stupid. Because that's
like putting on the handcuffs all by yourself.
You will have to step on the snake's tail on your
own to understand that.
On your own ==> on your own snake.
Because it's your snake,
it's waiting for you since you lost childhood.
> loll-mu2-wonder-ring
Repetition is a great way to upset others,
but it dulls one's own senses, too.
Kabir
--
The Hoo-Hoo-Hoo phase of the Dynamic Meditation
is jumping up and down on the snakes tail.
While not moving during the STOP phase is
putting on the handcuffs again.
When Bhagwan introduced the STOP phase, he ordered
the meditation leaders to bring any Sannyasin NOT
following the STOP to him personally.
Many a Sannyasin missed that chance.
The rest is called Sannyas-mind-cuffed.
Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:30 am
[°-:)] Re: Living Kabir for Satrakshita
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Muthu" <muthukumar.sat@f...> wrote:
> kudos to kabir...why that BIG man doesnot show up in n0by's?
>
> what is he doing? if at all not interested in conversation
> why to reply to some messages?
Conversation is conservation.
And quantity is not quality.
Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:24 am
Re: IDEOLOGY
Systems of ideas can be easily transmitted in our
"modern" societies. With words, books, lectures,
with reading, listening, learning - no problem.
The whole society trains and supports it.
Science and technology have flourished thru
systems of ideas. We mock about unscientific
superstitions and misunderstandings,
especially if they are "emotionally biased"
(which seems to be our modern formulation
of "devilish").
We don't mock about scientific superstitions.
Especially the believe that systems of ideas
are the reality, is our modern, widespread
and socially supported superstitiousness.
We are "un-emotionally biased", we believe
in words and ideas only if they don't disturb
our emotional status quo. And most of us have
lost the taste for experiences in the inner,
energetically and emotional world.
--- "Graeme" wrote:
> This Egyptian guy Qutb was especially morally outraged
> in 1950's US by a Church Dance in which horror of horrors,
> the lights were dimmed and couples allowed to dance cheek
> to cheek.
>
> A couple of towers collapsed in dust 50 years later.
>
> Yes, it was the Church Dance what done it.
Absolutely true.
One was the tower of dogmatism and
the other the ivory tower of thinking.
Dusty phallus symbols as a compensation for
experiences. I know by experience .o)
Kabir
Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:50 pm
"If it's not broken, don't fix it."
So what is cosmic intelligence doing, if
it wants to fix the human mind?
Right!
Members of the N0by-list, you are BLESSED!
Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:44 pm
From seeker to Buddha, from eggshell to biddy, from Michael to Hans
Dearest Hans,
your Buddha is a funny buddy, about Karma
he lets you write such sentences like:
> Dootsi, dootsi, dootsi!
> You belief this?
> And you call me childish?
No, not at all. I don't call you childish, Hans.
You are a big, grown-up man! A Tathagatha.
A Budhha-to-be!
I just believe what my Buddha lets me believe,
while I scribble colored smileys all over you.
It's never too late to celebrate Easter.
Please excuse my childishness.
Come, eggshell, yet come again.
God is Love. Love for the egg,
Love for the Buddhy. You'll get
all the attention and warmth you want.
Cozy Satsang-warmth will help
you find the biddy in you.
Much Love to you, Hans.
Michael
--
We break for Love,
but Love breaks us.
No egg is useless.
Some just become scrambled.
Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:45 am
Re: Noby / daylilly for Michael
> Die Geschichte vom Hans Guck-in-die-Luft
> The Story of Johnny Head-In-Air
> De geschiedenis van Hans kijk-in-de-lucht
Isn't he cute? Sweet! N i c e !
Dootsi, dootsi, dootsi!
Where is his mom?
Please search for his mom and keep him away
from the computers.
And some friendly soul have his pampers renewed.
But not here, please!
So who's his mom? N0by?
How I know that it's a boy? Look how he's grasping
after all the tits and laughing at the females.
MUST be a boy.
Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:14 pm
Re:Re: to Michael
I don't want your sarcasm, irony or cynicism.
Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:18 am
Re: Noby / question for Michael
Hans Guck-in-die-Luft,
> > That is no standard for others, that's a pattern
> > of life.
>
> That means, that no one can get to fase 2, without
> having been in fase 1 first, etc. etc.
> Cosmic law, no exceptions?
> No kidding?
A pattern is no law.
Hans, read more carefully and stop your childish
games. Meanwhile talk with somebody else, please.
I cannot stand the faint but distinct smell of
full Pampers for long which emanates from your postings.
Kabir
Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:05 am
Re:Re: to Michael
As usual everything as I see it:
Graeme, you wrote:
> YOU are the one with the ' map of consciousness '.
> You can have my A-Z but I will need to charge you
> the going rate for a second-hand copy.
Going there is the price asked by existence.
And having it as #1 on my shopping list
is the neccessary (but not neccessarily
sufficient) prerequisite to reach it.
These price tags are not made by me,
that's just how the things are.
Our arguments, quarrels, jealousy or competition
can change them as much as the pope's prayers
can change the gravitation constant.
And: there is no second hand copy of the path
or map to it. There is no tape for sale with the
true sound of running water. There is no CD available
with the divine music in the pines. Only individual
experiences and insights can be shared in individual
dialogues. No copy. Lectures ánd books are mostly
useless because they don't create a dialogue.
Osho's lectures were only true maps (at most)
for those few who have been personally present
at the Ashram when the lecture was spoken.
For all others they are nice stories about
other people's maps and journeys.
There is no copy possible from Michael or Graeme,
no Xerox-copy of an alarm-clock will wake me in time,
and no photo of a Zen-stick can stop my circles
of thoughts. Only a real and alive man or woman
with a real stick in the hands could do that -
if at all.
Individuality has a divine copy protection,
and this begins on the first step of the
path to it allready.
Sorry Graeme, but your A-Z is totally
outdated. The London you visited does
no longer exist. The Michael who wrote
about the five steps is also no longer
exactly there as he was it some days ago.
Bye
Kabir
Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:46 am
Re: Noby / question for Michael
--- Hans wrote:
> Question: Why should your experience be a standard for others?
A tree has roots, a trunk, branches and leaves.
That is no standard for others, that's a pattern
of life.
Each person is unique, my way in quarrels, in upsetting
and provocing others, is blunt, direct and loud - your's is
asking naive, innocent-looking questions. We both have our
own tastes, ways to do the things and unique colors to paint
the picture of our lives. I prefer to provoce (understanding,
anger, love, whatever) using the words and pictures of the
communication-partner, you perfer to upset with seemingly
unrelated quotes from the internet or sloppy, excessive
quoting of irrelevant contents like email headers.
The common pattern is: upsetting and provocing.
The real question during upsetting and provocing is: are we
ready to be upset and provoced ourselves? Are we ready
and open to get touched or even hurt in our fights also?
Or do we use our individual talents to defend our old ways
again and again and again - in different situations and
with different words only?
In my words: are we ready to go on or stuck?
Neither is good or bad in itself, it simply boils down to
"what is the number one on my shopping list?".
Kabir
Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:58 am
Re: To move forward. Forward??? a little story
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" <mail@h...> wrote:
> The following description is from the
> Ramana Maharshi Website....
>
> "Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi, known as
> The Sage of Arunachala, is widely recognised
> as perhaps the most unique spiritual personality
> of the 20th Century.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What bullshit.
unique - more unique - mostly unique ???
But the master needs to be the most beautiful,
the best, the greatest, the master of all masters.
Because then the ego of the disciple is the greatest.
bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit.
Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:20 pm
Re: to Michael
I once saw a show in TV where they asked pedestrians
for the way to some famous spot of the city.
The reporter had a large pattern for sewing, showed it to
everybody, pointed to it as if it was a map and
asked helplessly "escuse me, where is the cathedral?"
or such.
Graeme, if you ask me, don't be surprised,
if I try to take away your "map".
But then you become angry.
OK then, let's see on your map where we are:
> I ... thought
> ... this is ... confirmed
> You ... little GURU
> How cute!
> Anyway DISMISSING the POV of others
Your point of view may be a collar seem
and you ask for directions to the cathedral.
In such a situation get ready to have your POV
dismissed. Or continue following the plait down
to the left pocket. It's as simple as that.
I was not dismissing you at all, but rather
tailored my answer specifically to you.
Let's see what made you angry:
> with a cursory ' Reality does not have to make sense '
> can only be described as empty flowery rhetoric
This pill was too bitter to swallow?
Rhetoric is empty? Flowery is a deception?
The ultimate deception is to believe one's own
mind-set, trust only one's own past and judgement.
Then learning ceases.
> If there is something to beware, it is in STRIVING
> to make sense of it all,
Absolutely. But my "sense" comes out of experience
and not of striving.
> and/or having a fixed and inflexible POV
> as a form of ATTACHMENT = BELIEF.
This is also true.
But are you sure, you see me?
> Btw when I ask for directions in a city,
> the last thing I want to do is bump into
> some nihilistic non-dual idiot with a smile,
> whose reply is that ' there is no place
> to go to ', ' nothing to strive for '!
In this feeling, in this experience lies the
first little knowledge about where your present
position is, Graeme. Just look at your feelings.
This is an inner journey. I may be whatever I
may be, the object of investitagtion is you
(to you). But it becomes difficult , because at the
same time you are the subject of investigation
also. Hence systematic errors are inescapable
and a self-critical attitude is a must.
A good start for me (thanks for the teaching, Kali)
was the question: "What do I feel?"
Instead of thinking "I am pissed/angry/happy"
the sentences "I feel pissed", "I feel angry",
"I feel happy" are a better start. Because they
are a step into somewhat more objective POV -
neither insensible nor emotionally too much laden.
So you feel angry when I say "nowhere to go" ?
So did I, when Bhagwan wrote that to me (and still
do now and then when that idea comes).
You feel cheated, when I say "nothing to achieve" ?
So did I, and still do now and then.
It looks as if we bring our expectations into
the subject. Instead of looking unbiased at what
is, we want our wishes and expectations to be
fullfilled.
But our wishes and expectations - expecially the
subconscious ones - come out of past insufficiencies.
Hence we perpetuate earlier traumas as life-dramas.
> Do you think there is some sense in cities?
There is no sense. We create it. Man attaches
sense to things and situations.
It's our curse and freedom to do so.
You came here to see the cathedral, don't you?
That's the sense of the city. Perhaps.
For you perhaps.
> Do you think ' making sense ' is alien
> to what it means to be human?
Do you think, going beyond that is not
human too?
> It is part of the human condition.
But not a condition sine qua non.
> Part of human BEING
> of what it means to BE human.
NO. Part of where humans START,
not where they finally may go to.
MAY go - not MUST go.
Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:09 am
Noby,
> ... quarrels spice up the soup!
Time for a slight change.
As I see it:
Phase 0 - business as usual
Everything is normal, Money is spent and earned,
religion is for the masses, masters are far away
in India or Zen-monasteries. Truth is transmitted
in newspapers or TV.
Phase 1 - questions
One gets curious, visits a master, reads a book,
asks questions.
Phase 2 - quest
The Master's Energy has caught. Person becomes seeker,
Truth becomes quest. Love is everywhere, development
is happening, the world is full of wonders.
Many (most?) seekers are stuck in this phase nowadays.
Some even believe this is the final stage, they "got it",
are allready enlightened etc. Flower everywhere
(and false gurus also).
Phase 3 - quarrel
The unvisible energy around the master has done it's job.
Individuality has grown and the inner Buddha is creating
antisocial attitudes to support that process. As the
spiritual realm has become the seeker's "family" in
phase 2, the actions and attitudes may even be (seemingly)
against the spiritual path itself - though they are part of it.
Not few seekers turn against their former master - also seemingly -
(and thus prove that he has done his job). Others just
do the opposite, and become vehement advocates for their
master - all depends on the individual soul and the game she is
playing. A common factor is, that the seeker creates situations
for himself, where he doesn't get support and acknowledgement.
The N0by-List is a focus point for seekers in this phase.
Again there is the danger to remain stuck here. Because one
is stronger now in his individuality than in earlier phases,
the chance to "be right" or "to remain untouched and cool"
is seductive.
To avoid this pitfall, it's important not only to upset,
but to accept being upset. Not only hitting - but accepting
and being open to be hit, staying open when hurt. Jesus'
saying about the other cheek is for seekers in this phase.
The gems of this phase are not the moments when one wins,
but when one looses and is hurt.
Phase 4 - starting to give in
When the seeker has learned to accept that he is in
God's (or his own Buddha's) hands and that the negative
situations are to clean and clear his consciousness,
the next phase can start. Now the Buddha can really
become nasty towards the ego. Karma can now be balanced.
And of course the Buddha determines what and how much
is to be balanced and not the ego.
It is not uncommon, that illnessnes manifest here
(like nearly loosing one's eyesight, or gettinng broken
limbs in self-created accidents when one has not respected
the eyes and bodies of others in earlier lifes).
It becomes "dark" for the seeker - only now and then a
light moment happens - just the minimum needed to keep
the seeker on track and going. Yet everything is a blessing,
but this standpoint is unavailable for the seeker (otherwise
Karma-balancing would not be possible).
The story about walking through the woods at night
without a light and only now and then a bolt of lightning
gives some light on the path - that is a story about
this phase, like the saying about the "dark night"
etc. Many stories and talks about this phase are told
by the elders in the esoteric scene - because is this
phase any support and encouragement one can get is needed.
TRUST is needed (and missing) most in this realm.
Satyananda's comment about "who has never played with the
idea of suicide, whose path has not yet begun" speaks of
this landscape.
Phase 5 - the light at the end of the tunnel
When the individual Karma is partly balanced,
the egocentric viewpoints can be given up, and the
Buddha within gives the seeker small insights
and feelings about what is happening in his life.
Slowly, slowly, slowly the stress for the person
becomes less, life is more and more (consciously)
lived according to "thy will be done".
About further phases I cannot speak,
because I have no personal experience.
But according to the Elders there is
much, much more on the path.
N0by, you are the target of your own Buddha.
Don't run too fast in your verbal zick-zacks.
Let yourself be hit more. Don't win too many
fights.
With Love
Michael
Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:39 pm
Re: Apology
> "dense" implies that you find it uniquely DUMB!
> but i know what you mean. tangible works.
Thanks much for the language hint. :)
Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:20 pm
Re: The Patronization of "THE OTHER"
I felt you more real in the state you hastened to apologize
for the next day.
Anyway more real than in this "gee - see, how cool I am?" bubbles.
Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:16 am
Re: Apology
Hi Valerie,
you wrote:
> I apologize for reACTing - thru my writing
> and responding to living_kabir last night.
Actually, Valerie, I found that outburst of you more substantial,
more "tangible", more "dense" than most of your earlier posts
I happened to read. I said to myself: "great, finally she is
answering, quarreling, whatever". In your earlier posts you
often just showed a link, or gave a single sentence, which
I couldn't apply to any of the other members. Pretty "airy",
few "earth", few ground - if you know what I mean.
Being unsocial seems to be a neccessary phase in human
development. That's finally not the fault of the individual,
but of the society.
Just to give you some ammunition and reason to
call me paternal ;)
Kabir
Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:16 am
Re: The Patronization of "THE OTHER"
> Don't you know that "one-UPping" people is RUDE?
You are upping on everything and everyone in this list.
Don't forget: it was you who started this present dialogue
by shouting LIAR! and vomitting your mind all over me.
I responded not only with my personal opinion, but also
with a piece of factual information. But if you don't
want to listen, it is your choice.
Stop complaining about patronization,
get out of your baby-habits.
--- unrequested advertisement ---
Fixated getting contact thru
provocation and quarrel only?
Welcome in the N0by family!
Fighting everything which does
not fit into your ideas about reality?
Call yourself enlightened and play
the esoteric masters for others!
Transform your neurosis into a dream!
At least let others have your nightmares!
Welcome to the N0by universe!
Free! Freedom for free!
---------------------------------
But even a tiny little fraction of freedom
from oneself is not free. It was never free,
and will never ever. It allways demands the
willingness to look at one's own actions.
Without excuses or easy ways out.
No exit from yourself, but thru your self.
Kabir
Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:35 am
Re: Editor Replies to Bodhidharma re the Sheela Saga (Pramartha)
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Graeme" <graemewp@f...> wrote:
> depends what is meant when we talk about the HEART in these things.
No, depends what we are, not what we mean.
> some people define it simply in terms of emotions / feelings etc
Some people are dying, some are not yet grown up.
When you are talking to me, there is no need to
bringe some other people in.
> There is the centre, the heart.
An intermediate bus-stop at a nice place
where everybody is accepted as she/he is.
But the center? Can a human, this tiny fraction
of the universe, have the center or only a center?
But then this center is only a center and
not the center.
Nowhere to go.
Nothing to achieve.
But "some people" try to
achieve even that.
Reality does not need to make sense or have a meaning.
The sun rises in the morning and settles in the evening,
does that make sense? What is the meaning of a sunray?
Why is it raining? Why is it not raining? What is the
meaning of life? Has Monty Python found it? I don't know.
Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:49 am
kaBEER///Re: [n0by] Re: Editor Replies to Bodhidharma re the Sheela Saga (Pramartha)
Valerie,
> Your "Sheela" ...
> was a very REAL danger to the children and
> people of the state of Oregon.
Nope, she was not.
A very real danger in my old eyes, Valerie, is it, that the US-
American mindset is believing each and every bullshit which they see
in TV - especially if that seems to touch their fear of loosing
"security". But the USA itself is not respecting the security of
others very much (and that's probably why).
I say these things not to insult you, Valerie, but to provoke
you to open your eyes and ears a little more.
> Are you SO BLIND that only YOUR "teachings" of osho,
> and YOUR "sannayassins experiences" MATTERS to you??
Truth matters to me, human values and rights.
Like - for example - respect towards provable facts
or towards people with different opinions. The latter
seems not to be your strength, Valerie, or am I wrong?
Fact is, the Oregon ranch was an esoteric school;
this has to be taken into account, when one looks
at the situations there. This has nothing to do with
MY "teachings" or MY experiences, it is just the
context one should not fail to take into account.
That many Sannyasins themselves seem to have forgotten it,
is no excuse for you, Valerie, to stay at the surface
and not look deeper.
> WHY do you perpetrate these LIES?
The story about poisoning was a lie, Valerie.
Hence if one of us is perpetuating lies, I'm sorry to say,
it's you (though not intentionally, I assume, but rather
thru misinformation or as a result of the massive manipulation
by the US media and US politics).
The Salmonella outbreak "resulted from contamination of raw
food by infected food handlers [in the hotels and restaurants].
Such contamination could have occured where food handlers
failed to wash their hands adequately after bowel movements
and then touched raw foods".
See http://www.kabir.de/wasco_health_fax.pdf
Greetings
Kabir
--
Not everything is as it appears.
I - for example - I am beautiful.
Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Re: Editor Replies to Bodhidharma re the Sheela Saga (Pramartha)
N0by,
you wrote:
> ... the approach of Bodhidharma ...
> ... is felt more to the point than
> the answer of Pramartha at the end.
Who the heck is Pramartha anyway? Why do you compare
an awakened one with a spritual flatlander like Pramartha?
Are you still in Sannyas-politics, N0by?
Just a single look at the heading Pramartha used for his reply is
enough to see his state of mind:
"Editor Replies to Bodhidharma re the Sheela Saga"
1.) He is proud to be an editor, enjoys power games probably. Why else
should he define and name himself with the function of an editor?
Mr. Editor?
Mr. President?
Mr. War President?
Watch out! Here comes Mr. War Editor !!!
2.) At the same time he avoids the word "I" and "My". Looks like he
tries to give the impression to be a somewhat egoless soul.
3.) He is in politics - i,e, interested in what others think and say
about something, interested to influence the mind of the readers by
using emotionally laden words.
Sheela is not a saga, and the situation at Rajneeshpuram (for which
Sheela took the responsibility though it was a teaching for all of us)
- this teaching situation is either felt and experienced or not.
Either one gets it (and thus it falls off) or one misunderstands it
and then takes it "personally". Whatever - but it is never a saga. It
was real for us. It was something to FEEL, to EXPERIENCE and not
something to JUDGE or to THINK about.
With the word "saga" Pramatha tries to make Sheela's words unreal, put
them into the realm of fairy tales, science fiction and detective
stories. With the word "saga" Mr. War Editor avoids factual
confrontation with what Sheela has to say nowadays and escapes into
emotionally laden propaganda techniques.
Putting down Sheela's present statements, Pramartha misses again. He
would do better to listen to her, oppose her, if he feels like it,
shout, cry, meditate about it. But he chooses to dismiss it with the
cheap intellectual game to call it a "saga".
What a poor example of Sannyas prejudices and Sannyas conditioning!
He uses a spritual name for the games of his mind.
I know that state from personal experience, but that doesn't make it
any easier for me to see it in others - especially in so called
Seekers and Sannyasins. What a waste if one stays on this level!
But let's go back to what you wrote about your time at Rajneeshpuram,
N0by:
> .. i always felt these things as part
> of the EGO-reduction,
> part of the Master plan behind -
> and followed my heart to resist.
N0by, N0by, tssst, tssst. I know it's quite common among Sannyasins to
call one's ego "my heart", but this is tooooo much even for an old
Sannyas-mind like mine. Much too much.
The master gave teachings and you "followed your heart" to resist
them? Ahem.
Lie as much as you want, but never believe in your own lies, N0by.
Because lies cost awareness. Twisting one's own reality just for the
sake of momentary relief is too expensive in the long run.
Better face it: you escaped from the teaching, N0by, escaped from the
dirty daily work in Rajneeshpuram into "meditation", for years you
escaped from accepting the hurt by blaming Sheela for the teaching you
got thru her. Not by her, mind you, but thru her.
And regarding Bodhidharma, you escaped from an email list under his
guidance into your own ideas of internet "freedom". Following "you
heart" to resist the teachings of awakened ones seems to be one of
your favourite sports, my friend.
> From Kabir I feel from all meetings and mails, that he
> is beyond the ordinary mind judging machin robot system.
Bullshit. What ya want? Support for your word games?
Well, if your words wouldn*t be an escape soooo often...
But they are.
Kabir
Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:52 pm
Re: art of expression in times of repression
There is nothing from my side to say about Bodhidharma's text - he can
do that himself much better. But there is much to say about N0by's
subject line:
"art of expression in times of repression"
That is the titel a newspaper writer may use.
A seeker would know, that repression comes from inside.
A seeker would have looked into himself and found the source
of any repression in his own psychic structures - which are
worldwide and in nearly everybody.
A seeker would not have blamed "the times" but only himself.
Nobody, you are playing the informed one.
But you know nothing if you dont't know yourself -
and that starts with looking at what you are doing.
For example (in the context of Bodhidharma's letter)
how you are talking about Sheela, how you continue
to blame her for your inability to accept the teaching
you received on the ranch many years ago.
Greetings
Fri Oct 8, 2004 10:46 am
Dear Doctor Suviro,
Dear Doctor,
I hesitated to write to you about this,
because it's a very personal matter,
but I can't help it, I miss it soo much:
In my daily meditations the watcher
is no longer coming.
What can I do about it?
Yours lovingly
Ma Plem Plem
flom Munich
Dear Ma Prem Prem,
good that you asked me.
The watcher likes us as open and as naked
as possible. Perhaps it might help, if
you take off all your clothes and
go back to your meditation praxis
on the balcony, as you did during
the summer?
If you feel cold, I could lend you my
excellent 2 kW infrared heater - just
ring at "Suviro" on the 4th floor
across the street.
Yours truly
Dr. S.
P.S. Some watchers also love latex.
Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:26 pm
for Dr. Suviro
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, swamiali@a... wrote:
> [to Devapriya]
> i like the honesty in your letter...
> As far as i see you are the list-mother
> here for our nobyboy
>
> so he acts in a very split way with you
> he needs you but you should have no other 'God'
> beside him
>
> and Osho is his ultimate rival
> in the mind of the child
> yes, if the mother doesnot behave
> in the right way
> the childs thinks about killing her
> but how too kill the mother
> as a child?
Suviro, playing the therapist?
I thought you were intelligent
enough, to avoid that pitfall.
> only stupid silence remains
>
> forget to see some changes
> only the witness is the joy
Do you think,
the witness needs that information,
or the ego could make any use of it?
One ego telling the other, what joy is.
Just relax, ambulance on its way.
> and what is your need in this?
> is it the old abuser?
Give it up.
Look into the mirror
- or at my picture,
if you prefer that -
and ask youself
"Is this the face
of a therapist?"
Ka
--
Let's start over with an intelligence test:
Q. What have therapists and terrorists in common?
a) The word begins with "T".
b) They love to use taxis.
c) They like to see others explode.
d) They are neurotic.
e) They "work" for the "truth".
f) Their clients happen to die suddenly.
g) Their clients shoot back.
h) None of the above.
i) All of the above.
Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:18 pm
N0by, as you didn't answer to my private email:
Please take off my pictures and my texts from your
website. They have been sent to the group members as a
jolly gesture and are not meant for permanent public
display.
Thank you.
MM
Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:41 pm
security question///Re: [n0by] Naked Truth illustrated
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, v <amuse2@p...> wrote:
> WHAT IS YOUR PET'S MAIDEN NAME?
She is no longer maiden. :))
And you?
MM
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:21 pm
--- Khaleela <khaleelajoy@web.de> schrieb:
> Without towel in the sauna? Ts, ts, ts...
Not my fault. It was stolen to shoot the photo.
MM
Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:16 pm
Naked Truth illustrated
--- no by is:
> in search for __naked___ truth!
Better?
MM
Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:42 pm
Truth illustrated
A picture from my time as a Neo-Bedouin.
MM
Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:14 pm
A gang bang with Krshna
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "George Maddux" <itisthisness@e...> wrote:
> The truth imparted by the master is only true in the
> moment it is spoken to a particular person.
> I had a beautiful bonding with Osho taking sannyas
> in 1977 in Poona. it was heart to heart and no-one
> can take that from me.
Bhagavad Gita, Krshna to Arjuna.
"I am this atman, Arjuna. I am the highest king of all beings and I
live in each heart. ... The ignorant don't understand the trancendence
of my being and see me as a common mortal, though I'm unmanifested at
all times, formless and everlasting."
Some Neo-Bedouins have replaced the water hoses of their ancestors
with practical water taps. Only the problems with the water pipes are
yet unresolved. That's why these Neo-Bedouins have stopped moving.
27 years - 12 years without fresh water. Don't cling to the water tap,
look for the nearest oasis, my friend.
In each heart... The ignorant see me as Osho...
MM
Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:58 pm
Dear Doc Meme Pool
Hi Doc,
you project a lot. But your most prominent character symptom is your
inability to become simply angry at somebody. Obviously it does not
fit into your self-image to be angry or agressive. Only if that is
provoked in you (e.g. by insulting you or playing agressive), you
allow yourself to express anger - then in rationalized form, projected
unto the other. The other is the bad guy - you are just telling him
what he is.
Doc, you are a danger to the mental health of the human species.
And you are drowning soo deeply in your own suppressed stuff, that you
can't even recognize a theater play right in front of your nose. No
self-observation, no feeling, only steel mind - mostly ice-cold, but
sometimes hot, shining red steel.
Doc, it was a pleasure, to mirror you.
With deepest compassion and best wishes.
MM
Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:07 am
Re: Dear Doc Meme Pool/MM
Hi Doc,
> Why misquote me to myself?
Not at all, Doc. I just pick up what you say and show it's extracts -
as I found them meaningful and essential - in my answers.
Communication is an exchange and recreation of meaning, taking place
in a mutual process. So I quote you as I understood you. I don't quote
you to copy you.
> Your 'replies' are to your own (somewhat biased)
> version of my words.
Exactly, what would you expect? A photocopy? Or an exact replica of
your meaning? Do you need such a high level of acknowledgement in your
communication partner, that you enter fighting mode if it's not as you
expected it?
> If you want to talk with me, use tool#1 & 2 of your proffered
> toolbox, below.
Meaning 1) using your language and 2) your value system?
I'm doing that. The question is only how much difference can you
tolerate. The more differences we can accept, the higher can be the
level of possible exchange. 100% conformance = zero difference = zero
exchange. Only infants need near 100% conformance.
> That means to post a full text quote of my words, and to reply
> honestly and in the context of my reply.
This sentence has the taste of intellectual domination.
> Your *biased* view of 'me' has led you into what you
> define as dangerous waters; and I can only imagine that
> a person as seemingly intelligent as you, would not
> deliberately makes such errors; that is, unless you
> deliberately provoke me. Which your original posting
> (gangbang) was apparently designed to do, and to which
> 'spirit' I replied.
Yes, I provoked you. That's a good technique to get honest answers
quickly IMHO. But your reply was your's. You could have laughed,
ignore me, provoke back, fall in love ... the whole universe of human
interactions are available to you. And you chose a mixture of being
offended and ambition and fighting (thru personal re-insult). This
(and your recent complaint about my "misquotes") gave me the
information, that "aristocratic intellectualism" must be part of your
self-esteem.
Hi brother, arrows are flying pretty low today, don't they? Looks like
bad weather comin.
> Above, you ask 'why the fighting mood'?
>
> It is you who see a fighting mood in 'me'.
Please don't play these new-age group-therapy games. It's boring. Why
do you think, I call you "Doc" and "therapist", Doc? It's because you
play these games, as if we all are part of a big self-healing therapy
group. We might all be that, but you play the Doc, Doc.
> So I ask in return: Why do you see 'this' as a
> fighting mood?
Man, come on. I watched the list loosely before entering. You are the
first list-member I've ever seen, who wrote to the ISP of another
member to silence her. Just to give you an example of what you are
ready to do. If I provoke you, you would cut our communication,
because you wouldn't be able to take more (and between men of
undefined strength leaving the other alone is the programmed response
since the ice-age when it gets uncomfortable - with women there are
other means of problem-solution possible, like fucking or
overpowering). Now, again: you think, I don't see you correctly?
You are not yet boiling, but seething. My provocation is at the 3% to
5% level, but that's allready about 50% of what you can take IMHO.
This is my view, brother. Now argue, fight, play the innocent or play
the Doc. Ooops, sorry, that latter was too much provocation. And, yes,
ooops, sorry again, that sorry was another provocation etc. etc. etc.
The problem is: we are so deeply mis-used, mis-programmed by society
that we cannot stand even slightly different opinions about ourselves.
We need acknowledgement, love, attention, positive feedback - or else
we plunk the whole caboodle.
> My definition of power (in this context) is this:
> Power is the latency which enables willed action.
>
> It seems that my definition subsumes both of yours
> above, type 1 and 2.
>
> My 'power' is at my command.
Yes, I know these symtoms. Go for it. Have fun. Enjoy. Buy a new Uzi
and 10000 rounds, Doc (in "Doc Holliday").
> I suggest that your memetic research has fallen short;
> one of the oldest 'memes' is verily, the one that you
> deny. Look into it.
Which one? Name it and don't play the wise, mysterious oracle, man.
> But then there is the issue of 'meme vs truth'; not
> that a truth cannot be a meme or vice versa.
No. That question is part of the esoteric/spiritual meme nowadays. In
earlier days it was a philosophical question.
> The 'mechanism' or system which is in place, is not
> a meme; but it is where memes can take root and from
> which to propagate. This system embodies pre-meme
> factors which are in fact the enablers of all memes;
> no meme exists which is not rooted in this system.
Yes, Doc. Does this knowledge free you from your memes? Or is it just
part of your meme? You know the meme I mean, is the one which contains
sentences like "my power is at my command", "MY dick, MY mind is the
BEST".
I have not said it yet, brother, but for me power is also something
which is stronger than I am, which guides and controls me.
There is something in your post which requires a closer look at what
was written. I said:
> > All other memes
> > identify with positive images, like "I am a butcher", "I am a man of
> > honor", "I am an American citizen" and so on. Only the
> > esoteric/spiritual memes have such statements (which obviously come
> > out of advaita state, out of a meme-less mind-state, because that is
> > and was allways the original goal of esoteric/spiritual training).
> > That's the shizophrenia of the esoteric/spiritual meme: it's topmost
> > value is a non-meme state.
> >
> > Forgive me this side step. But you asked.
To which you replied:
> No -problem. I am always open to the POV of 'others'.
>
> Even if it is to hear 'me' labled 'schizophrenic'. Of course
> there is no animosity, or spirit of dominance in that accusation,
> is there?
Now where did I call YOU schizo?
================================
> Does my statement that "I would not 'fuck' her with YOUR dick"
> indicate 'jealosy' to you? And even is so, is that the ONLY
> meaning of what I said?
>
> An effecitve 'analysis' must include all details. What you choose
> to include and to leave out is significant.
That is my choice. An effective analysis must include all neccessary
details, man. You tried to make me jealous, and I haven't. I just
turned your statement around from "not with YOUR dick" to "with MY
dick". This is simple linguistic logic.
But as you insist on a complete analysis: You have not said "I fuck
her with MY dick" (allthough that is the linguistic deep structure
meaning) and instead projected it unto me.
Better?
> Do you actually BELIEVE that I am unaware of what
> you are 'doing' here and what your methods are?
I hope not, because it's my intention to make these
methods as transparent as possible. Including playing
with them to give examples and tease to look into it.
> Disabusement is my amusement!
Then we share the same hobby.
> Osho was driven by unregulated desire and aversion;
> that made his chosen 'tools' behave in an overtley
> predictable manner. The outcome was apparent from
> the beginning.
You have been (or are) an Osho-Sannyasin?
MM
Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:19 am
Jellyfish is harmless
Gaurav:
> i want god to see
CNN:
> At least 68 killed today in a Baquba suicide bombing,
MM:
> Both are results of memes, the virusses of the mind.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:07 pm
Re: The invisible Initiator !
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, Bhikkhu Samahita <bhikkhu_samahita@y...>
wrote:
> Friends:
> All States is Preceeded by Mind & Initiated by the Mind:
This is statement A.
> Whatsoever there are of advantageous states, Bhikkhus, connected
> with what is right, related with the good, all these are initiated
> by the mind.
This is statement B.
Let me introduce myself first.
membot (short for meme-robot):
A person whose entire life has become subordinated
to the propagation of a meme, robotically and at any
opportunity. (Such as many Jehovah's Witnesses, Krishnas
and Scientologists.) Due to internal competition, the
most vocal and extreme membots tend to rise to top of
their sociotype's hierarchy.
mechanic:
Someone whose occupation is repairing and maintaining
mechanical, automotive (i.e. self-moving) devices.
membot mechanic:
Someone occupied with repairing and maintaining membots.
Now let's look at the meme-defect.
Statement A and Statement B are opposite, yet applied
as if equal. Withing the meme to be applied (which is
undefined but can be assumed to be in the area of spirituality,
religion, inner science etc.) there is a core concept, which
says that the following pairs (for example) are existentially
opposite.
... buddha - ego
... consciousness - maya
... no-mind - mind
... Mind - mind
The latter pair applies - Mind with a capital M
against mind with a small m.
The right sides of these pairs of opposites don't know
anything about the left sides, a sleepy or egoistic
or "small" minded person may easily ignore the differences.
While the left sides are perfectly aware of both sides and
the different fruits they yield.
Bhikkhu Samahita, you failed, you just proved,
that your Bhikkus are initiated by the small mind
and not by the Mind. It would be right to
repeat your basic studies from the beginning.
MM
Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:22 pm
A gang bang is good for the gene pool.
It was written:
> If you see someone bleeding on the street, and
> then the paramedics try to attend, and the bleeding
> person resists treatment; do you immediately charge
> into the scene, and fight the paramedics, to preserve
> the 'right' of the bleeder, to bleed to death?
If I see someone bleeding on the street and the
paramedics intervening, I reload and take better aim.
But that's not the situation, brother.
What I see is a medicine man with wide, wild eyes
searchin thru the streets of virtual Harlem trying
to treat every read lipstick as a sign of lung cancer.
Relax, brother, stay cool.
I can understand, that you want to fuck V.
But let's rather have fun with these overactive gal, hmmm?
She's enough for us all. No need to sublime our power into
trying to "heal" her away from her jiggling.
And - by the way - a real headshrink doesn't work
in the virtual world. So you're only a virtual headshrink,
brother. Like Doc Spider or The Joker or Doc Holliday
or Doc Osho.
I'll call you Doc Gang Bang from now on to remind you.
First step first. First the gang bang, then the good
gene pool 9 months later.
This round of therapy is on the house.
Membot Mech
--
PRESCRIPTION:
An apple a day doesn't keep the doctor away,
but an UZI might be helpful.
See http://www.imi-israel.com
and click on "small arms".
Your local drug store will take your orders.
Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:53 am
Re: Hans to Michael. Q & Aa
Hans,
> I hear what you say. Thank you.
You don't understand what I say,
otherwise you wouldn't say "thank you".
> ... Would you .... a few month ago. ...
Why not a few lifes ago?
> Everything that you refer to as my behaviour and what
> you notice in it, goes in here thru language, time/space
> and so on.
Exactly. But the language-system not (allways)
the final recipient. Otherwise, were would the
original answers come from (now and then)?
A phone cannot talk, an answering machine
can, but nothing original.
> When you write to me you paste and copy
> from memory yourself. Otherwise, how the f*k would you
> know what you where doing?
I don't either. I just do it.
> > Sure, and this "Doctor Freud" is another try also:
> > the try to limit your feeling about that point.
> Might be. Are you infallible clairvoyant?
> You are never mistaken?
So what? You can decide for yourself wether
something I say is true for you or not.
But you decide to go for a luke-warm "might be".
> You seem to not even theoretically count with that
> possibility. Very Japanese indeed.
I cannot ensure to be right, so I am right
or I am wrong (or anything in between).
But I can go for it totally.
What is your "might be" against my 100% wrongness?
Du Warmduscher, du esoterischer!
> [My reference point here, is Isaac Shapiro, who IS my teacher.
> He has this amazing capacity: he is able to describe
> in great detail, what the person with whom he is
> communicating, is feeling. Bodily feelings and emotions.
> Although he knows that he is very often accurate, he
> almost always speaks from this attitude: this is how
> it feels in me/for me. How is it for you?]
Exactly that is the job of a trainer.
In the beginning. In the very beginning.
Later he will not describe, but simply
help to feel. And after that the trainer
may even try to bring the trainee away from
his feeling (If he doesn't succeed, he is happy).
Finally the trainer is no longer needed,
because then the trainee can piss for himself.
Now compare that with your attitude.
Obviously you hinder yourself immensely
because YOU ALLWAYS WANT TO BE RIGHT AND ACCURATE.
Hans, you are boring.
If it wasn't for your big heart ...
> > You prefer a Jewish teddy bear, who allows you to possess him,
> > who answers all your questions like what-was-his-name?
> > You want to determine the conversation with your
> > pampers-style?
> You don't have to communicate with me.
> I did not ask for it, to begin with.
Blah blah. You are pissed.
Btter check it yourself.
Have a look at the body language
in your photo with Issac.
He is just there and
you try to possess him.
> (And than you come in, telling me: and don't say that
> you did not ask for it, etc. etc. I will not find you the
> exact quote. You know what I mean, I guess)
pissed, pissed, pissed, pissed you are, great master.
> > If I simply had reacted to you with a "piss off and
> > come back with clean pampers" some months ago - would
> > you have understood what I mean?
> I don't know.
> But why would you, by Jove, want to speak to me like this?
> To anyone?
> I asked you before: how have you been treated?
It is not your business, why I do something.
This is not a group about ego-centered therapy
and social adjustments. Where is YOUR reaction?
> And you have told me before that you are not my
> answering machine, and I have told you that I respect
> that.
HOW CAN YOU RESPECT OTHERS, IF YOU DON'T PAY RESPECT
FOR YOUR OWN FEELINGS AND IMPULSES?
You question and answer and analyse and understand
all and everything. But your nature is not intellectual.
Whenever you write some of your very intelligent
questions and answers, I get a hickup.
> Feel free to comment.
I DON'T NEED YOUR BLOODY ALLOWANCE TO COMMENT
OR TO BE SILENT OR TO BANG MY HEAD INTO THE WALL
OR WHATEVER!!!!
CHILD
"Mama, Mama, feel free to say something to me."
MAMA
"Drop dead, darling!"
CHILD
"Why do you say this to me?"
MAMA
"Gggrrrrrrrrrrumble"
CHILD
"Use language in time/space and so on."
MAMA
<breathes deeply>
CHILD
"I have these funny feelings, could you
explain them to me accurately and politely?"
MAMA
!!!
CHILD
"Mama you are going to bake a cake?"
MAMA
"No, darling."
CHILD
"But what else will you do with the rolling pin?"
> Again, I tell you, I let you know, I am a language
> understanding human being.
Really? I thought the basis of language is FEELING.
> I am open for pointers from other human beings.
> Really, when you say to me: "Hans, I see you do this
> and that. My impression, or my intuition, or my whatever,
> tells me such and such. Why don't you take a look?",
> works for me fine.
Enough is enough. This has worked fine for you
and that has worked fine for you. And talking
has worked fine for you, internet surfing has worked
fine for you. And this and that and that and this -
everything has worked fine for you.
So that must be the root of the problem... everything
working fine for you, not a single thing to teach you.
> The right to say to me: TAKE A LOOK ! , you have to earn.
> And, I must say, you are doing fine.
Sure. TAKE A LOOK! THIS IS A ROLLING PIN!
> And all this authoritarian nonsense, this would be despotic
> behaviour of yours, I will keep labelling Japanese,
> or someting like that.
Thanks for the flowers. But fuck you anyway.
I'm not going to be dominated by your 1-year-old
everything-works-fine-for-me-if-you-do-what-i-want
donkey.
"Authoritarian despot" - YEAH, THAT'S ME !!!
I FEEL SEEN ! Yippeee!
> > ...you "make your thing" with everybody in this group.
> Everybody is invited to comment. Or not.
Invited by whom? By you?
First learn to invite yourself
to comment without your filters.
Or not.
Kabir
--
All humans are equal.
Some use pampers and some don't.
Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:50 am
Jeff speaks authentically?
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@s...> wrote:
> I give you a Kabir laugh.
> HAHAHAHAHAhahahahhaaha.
Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:16 pm
Re: Hans
Hans,
you did not answer my posting:
> --- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" <mail@h...>
wrote:
> > The context of a mail from me to you, is me writing to you.
>
> And SORT OF DEMANDING an answer.
>
> > Okay, as I did not quote anything so far,
> > I guess it is necessary for the context to
> > quote the whole message, that you did not
> > react to.
>
> So if I don't answer, you go on to become louder
> and Louder and LOUDER. Sounds childlike.
>
> > Second chance:
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > I saw , that you signed a mail to someone elso also
> > with Michael. Looks good. Makes you less anonymous
> > in a way. How dows it feel?
>
> This is the x-st time, that you try to pull
> me into your way of seeing myself, how I
> should react etc.
>
> If you didn't get it the first time,
> why repeat it ad nauseam?
>
> What's on, what do you want?
> What do you think I didn't get
> or should answer? And in Gods name
> don't copy any of your old texts
> or any of mine, but say something new.
>
>
> You have a way to communicate with me here
> in the list, as if you were a child and I
> was you mom and you wouldn't let me go
> clinging to my legs...
>
> As if you go on repeating again and again
> "But you promised not to go away....
> But you promised not to go away....
> But you promised not to go away....
> But you promised not to go away....
> But you promised .... "
>
>
> You know what I mean?
> How is it for you?
Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:18 am
Re: Hey Hulk!
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Muthu" <muthukumar.sat@f...> wrote:
> >> i dont have a diffrence between mind and system
> loll..mu2-mind==system?
And with what does your system makes love then?
mindlove,mindfuck,mindyourownbusiness
Have fun!
"Fun, fun, fun on the Autobahn!" == KRAFTWERK?
Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:52 pm
Re: Hey Hulk!
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Muthu" <muthukumar.sat@f...> wrote:
> >...i do as my system? tells me todo!!
> >> no kabeer ..thats was a state of mind!!
> loll..mu2-aligned with mind
Yes, but then you follow rather your mind
than your system-plus-quotation-mark.
Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:38 am
Hans
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" <mail@h...> wrote:
> The context of a mail from me to you, is me writing to you.
And SORT OF DEMANDING an answer.
> Okay, as I did not quote anything so far,
> I guess it is necessary for the context to
> quote the whole message, that you did not
> react to.
So if I don't answer, you go on to become louder
and Louder and LOUDER. Sounds childlike.
> Second chance:
> Hi Michael,
>
> I saw , that you signed a mail to someone elso also
> with Michael. Looks good. Makes you less anonymous
> in a way. How dows it feel?
This is the x-st time, that you try to pull
me into your way of seeing myself, how I
should react etc.
If you didn't get it the first time,
why repeat it ad nauseam?
What's on, what do you want?
What do you think I didn't get
or should answer? And in Gods name
don't copy any of your old texts
or any of mine, but say something new.
You have a way to communicate with me here
in the list, as if you were a child and I
was you mom and you wouldn't let me go
clinging to my legs...
As if you go on repeating again and again
"But you promised not to go away....
But you promised not to go away....
But you promised not to go away....
But you promised not to go away....
But you promised .... "
You know what I mean?
How is it for you?
Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:33 am
Re: Hey Kabir!
--- Muthu to Kabir:
> so can u TRAIN me? at what cost?
Cost of spiritual training is covered by
universal laws of the Tao (because all
real trainers are employees of the Tao).
The price doesn't depend on the trainer,
but on the trainee (who has to learn that
she/he is part of the Tao).
Price is 100% (of the trainee),
result is 0% guaranteed (both meanings),
duration is unspecifiable.
Kabir
--
Water boils at 45 degree Celsius in Asia.
"Have fun!"
SuSE LINUX LOGIN MESSAGE.
"You shouldn't have come that far, reboot in progress!"
INDIAN LINUX LOGIN MESSAGE.
Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:35 am
Hey Hulk!
--- Muthu dreamed and spoke aloud in the sleep:
>...i do as my system? tells me todo!!
Like marying a Japanese girl without asking
your father and mother?
Come on, Moo2, just painting your face green
doesn't transform you into The Hulk.
Or did it?
Kabir
Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:19 am
Re: Man is part of nature, but his freedom is universal / BUT? BUM? BUT??
BUMM?
--- Hans wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> I saw , that you signed a mail to someone elso also
> with Michael. Looks good. Makes you less anonymous
> in a way. How dows it feel?
Haenschen, it's not your business
to give names. Or did you also get the
guruship-syndrom?
Better learn to quote only what
is neccessary for the context.
Kabir
Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:13 am
Re: Hey "HAHAHAHAhahahaha Kabir"!
--- Ramarshi decided to share with us:
> Kabeer, if you hate Osho because he has tricked you
> being with him for some time, that is ok.
> But to hate all Indians for that is too German.
> But now i know why you are n0bys guru.
Aha, guruship is IN in your value system
and friendship OUT. That's what I mean:
After some years in the eso-circus, one no longer
has any friends and is only phantasising about gurus.
I like Osho and I am grateful towards him;
the difference between your and my relationship
with Osho is only:
I have seen behind the fact, that he tricked me
(and not only me), and I see it as a neccessary part
of the job of a master to trick the trickser-ego.
While in your life it seems,
that the trickser believes,
he still can win.
Kabir
Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:08 am
Re: Hey Kabir!
Sanjeev Kumar,
you are such a predictable robot. I KNEW, you would
react 'cause I spelled your name wrong, I KNEW IT.
And I also knew, you would react pissed and give
you "correct name" again.
Any Japanese 1000-Yen tamagochi is more flexible.
> You should change your name. Kabir was a wise man. You can not
> remember a simple name Sanjeev Kumar!!
Why should I? I cannot even remember the names of
all the Indian spices (and that would be far more
important, in my opinion, than your name).
With your programmed, automatic pride you are the
living proof, that India's time of great consciousness
is over. Over and out. Past. Gone. Finished.
Pfooeeeeet... Flasche leer, haben fertig.
Kabir
--
Consciousness is individual and not national.
And it needs individual effort and training.
In this body, in this life, with this heart
and brain and feet and belly.
Consciousness cannot be inherited,
only unconsciousness is inherited from
generation to generation. Unfair?
Well, that's how it is.
Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:40 pm
Re: Hey Kabir!
--- Muthu wrote:
> [ about "Chat - Shit - Banana land" ]
> my point is WHY THE FUCK u take upon INDIA?
> the most talked country after US?
> whats the SOURCE?
> isnt the sourse is YOU?
I simply cannot resist; you make such a great target... .o)
LOL
Look, how this kumr sandeep immediatedly turned into
a silent wise man after only two letters from me!
HAHAHAHAhahahaha........
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:39 pm
Re: Hey Moo2!
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Muthu" <muthukumar.sat@f...> wrote:
> But i always gets this ego, whenever there is a
> forign born person talks about India as a whole.
> In my mind its settled u have no authority to talk
> unless u were REALLY there.
Again talking about India?
While I'm talking to (and triggering and about)
your ideas about India.
So you have some great example of
a national-movie to watch.
No need and no possibility to do anything
except perhaps saying
AHA! HERE IT IS AGAIN!
when the movie comes.
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:33 pm
Re: Hey Dancing Kabir
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@s...> wrote:
> I am only a humble clerk
> at the front desk. But didn't
> you ask for a wake-up call?
That was the nice girl of the night shift I asked
to be awoken with a kiss - not you Jeff!!!!!!!!!!
Kabir
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Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:46 pm
Re: Hey Kabir!
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "s_pandeyde" <s_pandeyde@y...> wrote:
> Hey Kabir
> Indians do not have inferiority complex!!
Why don't you use at least three exclamation marks then?
Only two - that's not enough. Truth begins with three.
> You are totally wronged in ur believe!!
Yes, I know.
> Indians have taught this world the ways oof peace, love.
> When such a teaching is given by Indians then why
> should they have inferiority or superiority complex...
That was ...
... let me count...
... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7...
... <snip>
... sorry for the delay...
... 2498, 2499, 2500 ...
... and counting ...
So that was more than 2500 years ago.
Meanwhile the Energy moved several times around the
planet by foot. Last years the center of spiritual
development was Munich, the years before it was Toronto.
Hhhm, I'm getting old...
What was your point again?
Aah, yes!!!
For centuries by now and up into modern times
India contributed the greates spiritual advancements.
Not even the freedom from the ego,
but the total freedom from the egoistic modern
developments, like the toilet.
Chat - Shit - Banana land.
That's what you mean?
> May peace pour upon you
Thank you. Same to you.
Kabir
Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:33 pm
Re: Hey Dancing Kabir
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@s...> wrote:
> You have clearly
> demonstrated that your own blinders are fastened
> in place, by your smug and sarcastic response.
I had email contact with Calder about 6 years ago,
when he started his "boot camp for the mind"
internet project and obviously tried to recruit
for some sort of esotheric school. I saw his picture,
I read and analyzed his material.
He knows something and he's not talking about everything.
And when he was trying to reach the internet
public again ('baut two years ago?) is was obvious,
that he was simply trying a different strategy.
> My view is my own, and no one need
> agree. Disagreement doesn't upset me.
But it fogs your perception if you don't
get your daily dose of agreement, my dear.
You are not smart enough to hide that, Jeff,
so better don't try it.
> I wouldn't be participating in this
> group if I didn't enjoy the brawl.
You wouldn't be here, if the Divine Energy
decided otherwise.
> CC's (and other's) lack of solid foundation I referred
> to here and elsewhere is always about a lack
> of an experiential foundation, and in the
> context of first-hand knowledge
> of levels of consciousness. For example...
>
> If I have an experience, and you have
> not, and you attempt to explain my experience
> to me, I will know when you are babbling.
> No amount of posturing will intimidate me.
> Experience is never at the mercy of argument
> (or ridicule, or denigration, or insult or
> sarcasm).
So why do you argue about your experience soo much?
Why do you boast about your so called enlightenment
so much? One of the very first postings you made
soon after arriving in this list was some sort
of spiritual declaration, wasn't it? I'm too lazy
to pick it up from the archives, so help me pleas.
What was it? "I have reached" ? or what did you
shout from the roof tops?
> The babble and naivete I noted
> were in his subjective statements
> about enlightenment, not his historical
> review. His, "even enlightened need social
> interaction and material things
> to be content", for example.
Perfect fit, perfect dancing partner for you, Jeff,
I would say.
> Gee, thanks, Dad. Don't take everything
> at face value? Wow. Why didn't I think of
> that? The spiritual circus is full of undertones
> and esoteric foundation? It is? Boy, have I been
> naive. I thought this group was just a
> bunch of wise and kindly old men.
Plus one little angry kid with smelly pampers.
Only who this kid might be is not
yet agreed apon.
> Come on, Kabir. Must you always be
> the old man of the mountain, offering
> his quiet, mature wisdom sprinkled
> with a little gratuitous denigration
> (the old man Ramarshi method?)
This comparision hurts... ;)
> and sarcasm of the effete intellectual?
Hooo? Who is intellectual?
I am not, you are not.
We both may try hard, but if that's not proof enough...
> You have? Care to name the date. Those
> who have caught on fire can name
> the date, time, place and moment
> that is forever etched in their heart
> and mind. Mine? July 21, 1975,
> 9:30am. Boom! Light body appearance
> and guidance into the mystic. And
> now, I can really dance. (ü)
I DON'T CARE, MAN!
CLEAN THE DISHES AND DON'T SPOIL THE CHILDREN
WITH THE DIRTY ORGASM-DETAILLS OF YOUR
SPIRITUAL JERK OFF MASTER COPIES!
DID YOU GET ME?
> What about the level of consciousness
> from which you speak? Hello?
> Anybody home?
Yes, I am home. Whom do you like
to talk to? Enlightenment?
Enlightenment is no longer living here.
Spiritual Development? Moved also.
Achievments? Didn't pay it's rent.
> Or will you, like so many others
> here, try to make up for your
> frustration from years of dancing
> around the fire - with esoteric babble,
> trying to fool and browbeat those
> who know into believing you know?
Oh, oh, Jeff. What a formulation.
Sounds like you'd prefer them to
believe that you know.
> Or will you once more stoop
> to the lowest form of ego puffery
> and self promotion: the implication,
> by insult, denigration and sarcasm,
> that you know more than everyone
> else here? Can your ego resist the
> urge to demonstrate that you can
> say it better, do it better.
> Is "I am better," emblazoned on
> your chest?
Yes, in blue and read - SUPER-KABIR.
Want to exchange t-shirts? Mine is XXL.
I'm the best Kabir I know.
And I am better than you in knowing what I
feel or think.
Up your ass with your truth!
Your truth is subjective, it's
totally without value in my life.
And for my taste, you are not capable
to transmit your truth to anybody else.
Jeff, you are not a teacher.
If your soul sends you anywhere to teach,
it must be a trick so that you get your
neccessary ego-rub-off. And according to
your big mouth you need a lot of that.
> Are you fully clothed or are
> you wearing the emperor's
> new clothes? Do you know?
There is nowhere to go,
nothing to wear,
no common goal to reach,
no individual goal to reach either.
Wherever you are, Jeff. You are alone.
All your experiences are yours and yours only.
All your truths, all your lies.
> [ about Calder's naive target audience ]
> And your thorough knowledge of Sri Calder's
> depth of experience and esoteric knowledge,
> would make you his target audience, yes?
You don't like to be naive? Do you?
But, Jeff, you are.
You are not very intelligent - average I'd say -
perhaps an IQ of 100 or little more or less.
That's a fact. An observable fact. Perhaps you
may even be only of the level of your president.
That's not a problem for me. But for you.
You try to be more intelligent, try to become
a teacher. Forget it. Teachers are born.
They often try to avoid it - to no avail,
but they never try to become it.
Only non-teachers want to become teachers.
And, Jeff, you are not one.
> Keep on, keep on, dancing, Kabir.
Thank you.
> Always in Love with Kabir,
> even when he condescends,
Teachers get special treatment, not only
from me but from the whole world.
You don't get that from me, you are just receiving
a friendly pull-down now and then, when you
begin floating over the table. I hate to see
your footprints in the pudding.
Allways in Love with Pudding
Kabir
Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:54 pm
Hey Moo2!
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Muthu" <muthukumar.sat@f...> wrote:
> kabeer....
> i dont play the whichisbetter country? you did. agin here whodid
tat? damn!!
Njet. Nein. No. Iee.
You are projecting your state of mind unto me.
You think, I am the cause of your feelings, you think
I am as you see me. But you see me according to your
feelings. And as these feelings (Indian inferiority complex)
are mainly unconscious, your remain unaware about
your emotional bias and take your vision for the
real thing.
That's called projection of subconscious material -
and it can be seen in others, if they do it. Like
clear, colourless jelly flowing over their eyes,
when the subconscious material bubbles up.
Fact is, I simply played the Indian card,
to tickle this in the other Indian I spoke to.
But your subconscious saw a chance to jump unto it
and whooosh! it was up.
I pull the trigger, but the pistol as well as
the ammunition (as well as the target) is all yours.
Much fun, I tell you. ;) I shoot and your fingerprints
are all over the victim who has shot himself in the foot.
> karma? what is that..i have no experince / belief in
karma/multibirths untill this moment.
Fuck your believe. Either you stand behind what you
see, think, feel or phantasize (wether it's right or wrong)
or you are a believer.
Better to be totally wrong than to be a believer.
That's my believe.
You have been grown up in India. Hence you are
taking many things for real which others don't
- and vice versa. Same thing as personal subconscious,
but even more tricky (because so many people around
you take the same things for granted). Just compare
your views with the Japanese. Pay them some drinks
in the bar - then they will have to talk with you
out of sheer Japanese politeness (and you will have
to drink their drinks too).
Kabir
--
Gott erhalte die deutschen Erleuchteten!
Und zwar so schnell wie möglich.
Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:32 pm
Re: Hey Guys!
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Muthu" <muthukumar.sat@f...> wrote:
> >> so osho represents the WHOLE india to u?
> go fuck yourself...or cleanup your mind...just becoz
> ur destiny went wrong with osho dont imagine
> everything else is just the same...
Aha, insult one Indian and millions cry "imperialism!".
> if its money and sex its jsut the same with
> all the growing nations party....u cant scape a single....
> jsut becoz u come under grown up nation u put the
> blame on poor people? typical german mind?
> now tell me what the fucking difference betweneen?
> growing up assole and grown up assole?
> your way of seeing is completely dominated by
> your bad experince...
> lolll...my 2 euros
Even if you are angry, you finish with "lolll" ?
Mu2, this is not growing up, this is retarding.
So you play "my country is better than yours"?
While living in Japan, where schoolchildren
are giggling and calling you "big nose" behind
the hand?
Well, it's all in accord with your Karma, I'm sure.
Last life you had been a poor Indian policeman,
I assume. Why don't you come to Germany for a change?
We have better policemen and better German laws than
this old Indian law of Karma. And better fucks, too.
Come on, just for a change and to get some training...
LOLOLLL
Kabir
--
Yesterday I saw a female rabbit in the woods,
who wanted to commit suicide, I think.
Using a lipstick she painted a big butt mark
on her butt. Or - perhaps - she just prepared
for a date with an Indian friend?
Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:22 am
Re: Hey Guys!
> By the way can someone put again some light...
> wether Osho was celibate or he had sexual ...
He fucked. Indian style. No good.
The more a civilization is suppressing sex,
the more everybody likes to talk about it.
Probably it's the same with spirituality...
In India everybody talks about it, but their
real agenda is money and sex.
Hope that helped. 100 Rupees.
Kabir
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:35 am
For Yeti-Girl, the Chosen Pheeui et al
All Yetis have inner humans,
all humans have inner Yetis.
> walk the talk, or get back on the horse you forgot to
> cross yer 't's and dot 'eyes', and rode in on
> yesterday????
Yesterday?
Yesterday an old Osho-priest visited The Ranch again
and wanted to have a look at all the 9999 places
where enlightenment happened (Kabir is late as usual).
So he decided to rent a horse and have a nice ride
on The Ranch.
"A horse is 50 bucks for the afternoon." said the
man at the horse-rental.
"Pheeui! That's rather expensive." said our Osho-priest,
who was more equipped with spirituality than with money
after his 30 years of God-realization, "What about that
donkey over there?"
"Oh, that's Sw. Don't Have Key, one of our oldest disciples.
After meditating on his name and the seventh chakra
for 12 years, he turned grey and grew those long ears.
Now he's serving us as a donkey. His price is 10 bucks.
But I must tell you, he's a little difficult to handle."
The priest became interested. "That means?"
"Well," said the dealer, "he starts slowly, when you say
''enlightenment'', runs as fast as he can when hearing
''Thank you Osho'' and he stops on the sound of
''self-projective spirituality''. "
"That's sounds great." said the priest, thinking about
the equation 50 - 10 = 40 saved bucks, "I take him."
-- for the rest of the joke see the Osho-lectures, --
-- which were held at The Ranch "For The Chosen Few" --
Kabir
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:34 pm
Re: How would you know the Buddha, the New Man, the transcended personality,
Ramarshi?//John Lennon
> imagine all the people
> living life in *peacez*...
Peace from inside needs no
avoidance of anything.
Peace from the outside creates
suppression, creates swamps
below the grass-carpet with
artificial smiley-flowers.
The call for peace often comes out of
fear of ones own suppressed agressions.
Decide for yourself, wether and how much
that fits.
Kabir
Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:04 pm
... the Buddha, the New Man, the transcended personality ...
It's allways the same with these pseudo-therapists.
As soon as one says something critical, they turn
around and try to blame the other's psychological or
spiritual state for everything.
Like Ramarshi:
> ... There is no love in you and that
> makes everything very gray. Your love for Osho never was
> in the first place. It was simply and ego trip of you to be with
> Osho`s people...
While Ramarshi allready came to Osho without an ego.
> As far the New man is concerned there is no boredom with Osho.
I write about my boredom with Ramarshi, and he twists it
into boredom with Osho.
> I for example always come to a point in my writing when i simply
> have to bow down to Osho as my Master. Than comes the quote.
> I know perfectly well that your mind hates it Kabeer. But what
> can i do? If it happens it happens and when you don't like it,
> it is your feeling, not my mood.
Right, Mr. Asshole of God. You are beyond anybody's feeling,
Ram-Arshi, faaaar, far beyond.
> That was from me. I know it out of my own experience.
I happen to have the same experience. And I know many,
many other people who have similiar experience and
insights and feel no need to speak about with Osho-slang.
That's not the point. The point is, that Mr. God-Ass is
using Osho-talk and spirituality for his own ego, to
compensate his inferiority. Everything Ramarshi ever
experienced or heard or read, is used to blow up his
spiritual would-like-to-be therapist ego. That stinks.
And this critique has nothing to do with Osho or the
validity of any experiences. This critique has to do
with his inferior personaliy, how he acts, NOW and HERE.
Self-rigtheous asshole, who is incapable of looking
at himself and constantly escaping into critisizing
others instead.
----- snip -----
Rest of Ramarshi's email is ignored,
I had allready enough from the first few lines.
Kabir
Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:50 pm
BUTT??? BUMM!!!
Ramarshi,
if you are in need of somebody to talk to,
please don't pick me. If you want to make
advertisements for your point of view,
don't use me for an advertising pillar.
I know, I may look like one for the needy
eye, but I'm not.
I'm utterly bored by your theory - copying
Osho-lectures over and over again, like
> Laughter comes from No-Mind.
And mixing this with your spicy insults
or dogmatic constellation views
doesn't make it any more interesting.
When you talk about your global political
views, it sounds somehow natural.
Probably you have looked closer into some
of these social and political games.
But when you address people directly
you are miles off. I think you have
not yet encountered your own egomaniac view
of spiritual development - but that's your job,
I don't feel assigned to help you with
cleansing your personal mess (beyond a
friendly rememberance in the form of a good
beating now and then, that is).
> Kabeer, can you see the difficulty your running brain has?
> Feelings are created by natures dreams. Feelings are just
> a dreaming habit of nature.
> The real question is now:
> "How can an idiots not be drowned in the dreams of nature."
> The answer is: Who cares about feelings?
Typical egocentric view. The spiritual ego
believes it can decide what it dreams.
That this is in itself The Dream, which Osho
gave you, is not going to enter ever into your
overstuffed brain, is it?
First cleanse yourself from the Osho conditioning,
before talking about "empty heart" and "new man" and
"buddha nature".
> ... that is the mind of an
> spiritual retarded Idiot.
Exactly.
> Osho: "Remember that you are not your body and not your
> mind, remember that you are a Buddha."
Dear Ego, dream that you are a Buddha,
imagine that you are a Buddha,
play that you are a Buddha.
Hear lectures that you are a Buddha,
read books that you are a Buddha,
fuck everybody as if God has installed
you as the World's most enlightened
tantra-master.
But take care of
a) not to come too close to a living Buddha
and b)
not to wake up the Buddha in you.
Or you are finished.
Two basic techniques to avoid that:
a) say "I love Osho soooo much, he is the
greatest Love of my life, he never died and will
never die in my heart"
b) pretend that you are it allready,
act as if you are it allready,
believe that you are it allready
(the Buddha, the New Man, the transcended personality)
And don't forget to criticize others;
the less you know yourself, the louder.
This will make you an even wiser man.
> Some what you write are moods, not feelings.
> Feelings are of the non empty heart.
> Moods are of the non empty soul.
How would YOU know, Ramarshi?
You are overflowing of Osho's
excrements each day.
> Acknowledgment is a mood, Boredom is a mood.
> And moods are closer to the center (Buddha nature) than feelings.
> Is the woman with you not a sannyasin? It seams she has emotional
> blocks. Otherwise she could have shown you the difference with
> ease.
Ramarshi, you have great talents.
Now even working
as a remote relationship counsellor?
But it's all words. ideas and words.
Concepts. Interpretations. Projections.
Gimme some feelings, come on, get angry,
boil a little or laugh or whatever.
But not this mindfuck day in and day out.
With these attitudes of yours, it's understandable,
that you feel lonesome and desparatedly need somebody
to talk with, because no normal man or woman is
ready to take much of this bullshit. But I'm not
an advertising pillar - even not for such nice
barking and pissing doggies like you.
Bark as much as you want, that's good for the lungs.
But piss somewhere else. Remember: I did not contact you,
you contacted me. You create your own answers in life.
And I don't answer your concepts, I answer you.
Michael
--
Water needs to boil before
it becomes a white cloud.
Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:56 am
Re: Man is part of nature, but his freedom is universal / BUT? BUM? BUT??
BUMM?
So somebody can call you an idiot
and your reaction is laughter.
That means: this feeling is not
created by the other (it may be
triggered by her or him, but not
created).
This is a fact, experimentally
verified.
Avd a fact is a fact is a fact.
Fact #1:
My feeling #1 ist not created by others.
Assumption:
All my feelings are not created by others.
Even the feelings of being loved, acknowledged,
hated, ignored, bored whatever...
Proof is left to the reader.
But then, Hans:
why do you try to get acknowledgement
and praise and love and friendship
from others? And don't tell me you didn't,
because it so obvious.
You even went and spent a lot of time and
money to get AWARENESS from others!
Why?
Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:10 am
Re: Man is part of nature, but his freedom is universal / BUT? BUM? BUT??
BUMM?
--- Hans wrote:
> That means, that I can just follow my heart:
Yes, yes and yes.
And the direction may change any second,
while we just follow.
Let's test that.
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
Hans, you are an idiot,
What's your answer?
Kabir
Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:11 am
Re: women & soul
Ali wrote:
> Flat on the ground?
> This must not necessarily happen.
> Maybe you have done too much bioenergetics, old boy ;-)
While you kept yourself in safe distance
muttering something about "black energy" ?
So now you lack the experience and call that
"This must not necessarily happen."
A rather transparent excuse, I'd say.
Fast mouth - fast feet - fast escape.
> The point is: the 4th body, the soul body of a woman is male
> and the soul body of a man is female...
>
> So this is the reason, that a man can make his soul alive
> by surrendering his ego to the male woman soul.
> Btw, the same reason Osho talked that his disciples had
> to become female.
Your Master talked to YOU by calling your
core "Suviro", which means "brave",
while you seem to think, he meant you
and it's meaning is "wise".
Masters use to give names about qualities,
which are burried under the layers of the
personality and have yet to be developed.
Anand Sudesh for example was given the name
"bliss" and then his personal initiation talk
was about misery, misery and misery.
Later he was called "Nobody" by Bodhidharma
and now his life is full of advertisements for
himself, his ideas and list. Mere coincidence?
My first thought when I received the name "life"
was "My God: am I that dead?". What was yours,
when Osho called you "brave"?
Kabir
--
OSHO
"When you come to a living Master,
something in you wants to bow down."
SUVIRO
"This must not necessarily happen."
Fri Jul 9, 2004 11:19 am
Re: Where have all the balls gone?
Hi Muthu,
you said:
> >> ok kabir? are u supporting woman or not?
individuals have my support.
Toward the opposite sex my feelings are mixed.
But that's rather personal and has more to do with
myself.
> first half looks like u are supporting them by saying they are
close to feelings in daily life
This is not a matter of support but
a matter of facts for me.
> second half u saying they choose in such a way
> the life has to be no arguments...
That's the ego - male and female are alike in this aspect.
> so whats the matter?
I don't know. What's the matter for you?
> u mean overall woman are better than men?
No. But different. Though the individual differences
are bigger than the average differences between the sexes.
Fri Jul 9, 2004 10:42 am
Re: Where have all the balls gone?
VeetTom, you have misunderstood me, I think.
Let's see where the differences are.
You wrote:
> Insights grow, at least for us male ones -
> that have to act like women, just to become
> real men ones and then again ... Just Great !
As opposed to what Osho said (also with your
words):
> Hey - Osho said ... 'we all had to be female,
> receptive and soft, and so on' ... End of quote
Do do see the difference?
Osho did not say "we all have to act...".
He said "we have to be..."
A man cannot be receptive and soft, if he is
not living 100% of his power, 100% of his emotions,
100% of his anger, 100% of his love.
Sensitivity, helplessness, openness, softness
can only be true to that degree, as the so called
"opposite parts" are also lived.
A man does not become open without living his power
a 100% - which is about 300% to 1000% of what the
society feels comfortable with. Three to ten times
more than what we allow ourselves to live.
A man cannot reach the inner, suppressed opposite -
the inner female - without going for it like a
man-iac with all his power and honesty and trust
and truth and heart. And those who power around
on the outside with words or ideas or fists or guns
are not the 100% types in my opinion.
Live functions out of opposites.
When a man goes with all his power for his
inner woman and finally she shows herself
again to him, his face will be flat on the ground.
Literally. That's the sure sign, that he
made contact again: if he MUST bow down.
If his body is pulled down as if the earth
was a magnet and he was a little piece of iron...
Then, over the years his inner woman and he
may melt into each other again, become one again.
Under the guidance of the inner female,
not according to what the male mind wants.
Then he is what he is - whole again -
and doesn't have to act it.
Everything else is mindfuck.
This whole "gee - look how
enlightened/developed/open/whatever I am"
- just mindfuck. Just invitations to get
started - at best.
Kabir
Thu Jul 8, 2004 4:40 pm
Oh, yeah, I forgot...
Peace
Kabir
Thu Jul 8, 2004 2:32 pm
Where have all the balls gone?
--- tom wrote:
> i can see that my male counterparts prefer to keep
> the status quo and support women who do not threaten
> them. is this why women don't
> participate in this group.
I think, women are just a little more sane,
because they express their feelings a little more
in daily life. That's why there are less women
than men in this mental asylum. They are not
quite sooo ill on the average.
I myself have a wonderful very intelligent
female for partner. When she did read some postings
of this list, she said "Perhaps I might
know wether I like these discussions or not,
if only I could manage to understand what
they are speaking about."
I also know some very threatening men
(Bodhidharma and Michael Barnett for example) -
they are surrounded by all kinds of beautiful,
lovely, powerful and very female women.
So in short: if there were men here,
there would come more women also.
You know: I mean men not mind-fuckers.
But besides that men-women-relatonship in this
list, two more personal questions arose from
reading your text.
First:
Your spoke about your "male counterparts".
Why "counter"? Are you not a male too?
Second:
Have you not observed, that many women also tend
to chose partners, which they can easily handle?
Especially for long-term relationships, like marriage.
When I was young and needy, I tried to
please women. I must have been a terrible
bore then. Now I'm older and have given up.
That doesn't make me any more interesting,
I suppose, but gives me more time for myself.
How long does it take to lick off
the nail-polish from a female toe?
What's your best time, Tom?
Your <tweet-tweet> counter-part Kabir
--
When men are men
and women are women,
life is an adventure.
When it is not so,
life.is called social.
Spirituality
... is not about
... ... becoming
... ... ... more
... ... ... ... social.
Thu Jul 8, 2004 2:30 pm
Hans
Hans, you are loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted,
loved and accepted...
enough for today?
Wed Jul 7, 2004 5:23 pm
Re: Helping and helplessness
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Poole" <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
> Well, Kabir, you know the
> old saying:
>
> "In the land of the blind,
> the one-eyed man is king".
>
> Enjoy your throne, sir.
I don't go for knowing it,
I go for living it.
While your attention is on being the king,
I read the "one-eyed" first. And although
only the right of my eyes can see acceptable
(the left is just able to see how many fingers
are spread out 10 inches in front of it),
I'd prefer any of my eyes to a thousand
kingdoms. Especially these borrowed kindoms
which exist only by acknowledgement from others,
you know the kind, sire. I'm damned sure, you know.
Similiar holds true for the so called truth.
Who would be interested to read somthing from
the famous Gene Poole, if one could listen to
an infamous, but living Kabir within? Not saying
much, not easy to understand - but these rare moments
when Kabir tells me to write something down and
I follow like a drunken moth ...
You miss a lot, Gene. But I can understand
that you prefer the safe harbours of your
knowledge. Especially with a brain like yours -
such a fluid and flexible and fast mind. What
enormuous amount of stored knowledge.
What a waste, that this mind has not been taught to
be the servant and behaves as if it is the king.
Kabir
--
A throne without it's social context is called zafu,
a king without his servants is called ... what?
Another word for "feeling-block" is "pride".
Tue Jul 6, 2004 5:08 pm
Re: going UP, going down, going UP, going down, going UP, going down,
> So, for the record, Michael, this was my reaction:
>
> From: "Hans van der Gugten" <mail@h...>
> Date: Mon Jul 5, 2004 7:40 pm
> Subject: WAUWWAUWWAUWWAUWWAUWWAUWWAUWWAUW
OK, Hans. Shall I burn it on a CD?
Tue Jul 6, 2004 1:29 pm
Re: master
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, minniehaha <tsunami@a...> wrote:
> some *mirth* some *joy* some *lightness* -
>
> where did it go???
In me it comes and goes on it's own,
as well as anger, sadness, meaningless,
action, laziness etc. etc. whatever ...
I can neither make it come nor make it go.
But the source of all which happens
to me is not random but rather intelligent,
it seems. And benevolent.
In the long run (the very long run)
my overall level becomes lighter.
The ups and downs are still extreme,
but I got more used to them and the
average water mark of these waves
also tend to rise (i.e. everything
becomes more bearable and lighter).
That's the summation of my past 10
years on this trail - for which my
spiritual friend used to give the
advice:
"Stand up in the morning and
go to sleep in the evening."
Greetingz
Kabir
Tue Jul 6, 2004 1:17 pm
Helping and helplessness
Well, Gene,
you've got your feedback. If you don't want
to learn something and instead dream staying
in control for the rest of your life, what
can I do?
Kabir
--
Ma PlemPlem came running to Mullah Nasrudin.
"Let's give Ignorance a Mala and call it Swami!"
"Oh no," said Mullah. "That ecological niche
is reserved by nature for another big soul."
"Bigger than Ignorance?"
"Sure."
Ma PlemPlem paused for a while before her
faced lit up: "But, Mullah, Gene's not taking
Sannyas, I'm sure. Not even from you. Never."
"That's why he is such a big soul, my dear.
He is allready living in eternity."
and a quote:
------------
ISHWARA [about Inner Voice and God realization]
"Practically this means He manages everything
for you, and you are totally helpless and vulnerable.
The experience of being totally in the hands
of God is the greatest blessing and freedom.
You have lost all control forever."
Tue Jul 6, 2004 10:18 am
Re: no SEE no ears but a STEAMING HELPING from KABIR
Hallo Gene,
if you feel like defending yourself with
cynicism and aggression (emphasis on defending yourself),
that's your choice and your life.
I don't feel like continuing these "I'm
better", "I know better" or "I can longer"
games which are fashion in this list.
I'm just angry.
> I see that you got 'hooked' here.
> Why?
> Is there regret, yet?
I don't have an idea about what you are talking.
Probably you are projecting something into me
or my actions. "hooked" and "regret" doesn't
ring a bell. Or would you prefer not to have me
in this list?
Be assured: I didn't come because of you.
When I read thru the last messages, your
post just stood out because of it's clean
and clear "neo" therapist-attitude.
And in many of your statements you confirm
that self-image. Obviously you think, you
can do something.
Everybody does what he see right to do
and no man should tell another what to do
and what not. So if you feel like playing
priest or therapist or doctor or master -
go ahead.
But there are some things which you obviously
have no experience about: the graziness
and pain on the path, when the energy start
cleansing the psyche. I don't say that
Valerie is in that phase - I don't know her
at all - but I recognize, that this is not even
a possibility for you.
You only use a "therapeutic" or "behaviouristic"
standpoint in your emails. And - excuse me -
that's not even the beginning of the path,
that's just the preparation phase, the
warm-up round.
> So, you now come out, 'against'
> therapists, eh?
I've never hidden my special love for those
psycho-power maniacs. There are good therapists -
but these are rare (as in any other occupation).
And even an average therapist might be of help
in illness-related situations. But the average
new-age "therapist" is just a pain in the ass.
> Is that supposed to be a big hurtful,
> scary, boo-boo word from you?
Look at your reality, man. Look at what
techniques you are using to defend your self.
> Like 'ego', eh? Just use that word
> and they cringe and become submissive?
You did not yet get it,
because you are totally in it.
Spiritual ego is the worst kind.
> > And you didn't succed, that's why
> > you call it "I tried to speak with you".
>
> Once again, your imagination is
> whip-lashed by your emotion, Kabir.
>
> Do you really tolerate this er, material,
> which bubbles up from your depths,
> like a ruptured sewer?
No, sorry, I don't buy that.
Big seemingly powerful words to hide
the fact that there is the bull's eye:
My point was it, that you speak to dominate,
to manipulate, to get acknowledgement.
Later in your post you will even try
to get rid of it by projecting that unto me.
> "more normal", eh?
> Is that 'better' than therapist?
YES, YES AND YES. I prefer a normal human
to nearly any therapist.
> Your not-subtle and invidious attempt to
> hammer poor V into the victim-role is
> transparently and utterly manipulative!
Not at all, Gene. I'm hammering at you.
But with your thick skin... you prefer
to think it's about Valerie.
Therapists allways prefer to think and
speak about others. Perhaps I should
try it some time...
> Anyone who has written to her onlist or
> offlist. You have seen her reactions.
No, I've seen YOUR reaction, Gene.
With all your verbal force you tried to bring
her into your frame of reference: social
acceptance, "positive", acceptable behaviour,
vituously answering all the "great" communication
attemps of which this list is overflowing.
This can't be right, Gene, because you are wrong.
Says my nose. Perhaps for her it's right,
that's not my point. My point is: Gene, you
are wrong. You are no therapist, you have
not experienced and lived yourself the slightest
freedom from conditioning. You have not even
"GOT IT" that the new-age circus gave you
an immense conditioning.
> In my words, you say?
>
> SPIT THEM OUT, if they are mine,
> and do not attempt to use my words,
> in your little drunken scheme of
> Bhogwashing poor V's addled brain.
Well, finally a true feeling. You get angry
when I say something as if it came from you.
Accepted.
> Just what the late Osho needs; yet another
> brain-bwoggled, dazed and confused
> ZOMBIE FOLLOWER!
You would prefer GENE FOLLOWERS, don't you?
Man, you are getting less than 20% of what I say.
> Look out, V... Kabir is in RECRUITMENT MODE!
Aha! Jealousy!
> > But victimizing is everywhere, it's part
> > of the global social conditioning at large.
>
> No excuse.
YOU ARE A VICTIM. GOT IT?
No excuse. No de-victimizing of others to avoid
looking at your own patterns.
All your power trips and therapeutic/behaviouristic
hog washs help you nothing. You are a victim of your
own believes.
Deep down that's why you cannot tolerate somebody
else playing the victim and being depressive
or whatever Valerie might play. That disturbes your
therapeutic positive surface cover-up. And to top
it all she is not even ready to get "healed" by you!
Now, how am I as a therapist? .o)
> Relax into your victim-hood here, Kabir.
Just tuning in into yours, my dear foe.
As you know: its allways easier and more
fun to see the victimhood in others.
> > Trying not to feel
> > and act victimized is no cure at all -
> > it's only the opposite - the wet dream
> > within the nightmare.
>
> So, you admit that victimizing of V,
> gives you a 'wet dream'?
Read again, sweety. 2nd try.
Translation for dummies:
The therapy-game is the wet dream within
our reality of being conditioned all over.
> No, no, no, mr bobblehead... I ask her to
> be aware, of what she does! I think you have
> your panties in a twist about this!
Not at all. YOU are the one to whom I write.
YOU ARE THE SYMTOM AND THE ILLNESS, DOCTOR.
> Where is your objectivity in this case?
Zero, Nada, Null, Niente. I am a subject.
> Admit, Kabir; this is YOUR IDEA, and you
> invent and the NAME AND ACCUSE, from the
> resource of your own IMAGINATION.
I just feel, when I read your posts.
You stick out of every sentence, Gene.
> You are spewing BULLSHIT, but why?
Be happy, that is it only spewing.
If I had you here in person, you might
have got a good beating.
> And you dare to say; "It is not my business
> to judge therapists".
>
> While you have done nothing but that,
> while accusing me of being a therapist?
Yes. That's your mindset.
> Don't bother to try to salvage this
> letter, or your image, Kabir. Just let
> it go, as a bad mistake. I know you will
> be feeling better soon.
Where's the vomit-basket?
> Looks like the shine on your goose-boots
> is blinding you again, kabir.
No, it's your silver armor, Mr. Power-Pool.
> If you do not know, 'put down' means
> to devalue, insult. So what do you think
> of the woman or man, who demeans
> and devalues themself, eh? Is that a
> good thing, by your values?
No. But my life is not about good or bad.
Wether someone puts himself down or
blows himself up is not so much the
question. What matters more is wether
one is aware of what one is doing
or not aware. These are my values.
Now compare them with your attitude.
And as a spice add the insight that
nobody can make somebody else aware.
> > Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.
> > Your text is pure social conditioning,
> > therapy in it's essence: strengthening
> > the adaption, strengthening the ego
> > (especially that of the therapist).
> > Perhaps she wants to get involved with
> > herself after all that many years of
> > listening to somebody else?
>
> Kabir, you must be drunk on your ass.
>
> I am surprised that you can type now,
> so stoned you must be, to come with
> with crap like the above paragraph.
Not a facts-answer, but insults,
socio-political power games.
You must be pretty lonesome, Gene.
And tired. Perhaps you can learn from
Valerie more than you would like to?
After all her postings got more resonance
than yours, didn't they?
Just that ol' dry Kabir answering you
- not very juicy.
Kabir
--
Final joke as usual:
> I am the essence of Love, Kabir.
> Believe it!
and a quote
MAITREYA ISHWARA
"Advaita is as close as words can come to the
truth, but it is not enough for unripe seekers.
Ripeness is the vital prerequisite for the
understanding of advaita to be effective.
Without spiritual maturity advaita’s potent
insight remains superficial - just more borrowed
knowledge for your collection.
Purification is what takes the time.
To clean your body, emotions and mind is a big job.
Get started. Any system that works for you is good."
Tue Jul 6, 2004 12:34 am
no SEE no ears but HELPING EVERYBODY
Gene,
what a great example about how
prolonged exposure to neo-speudo-alternative
therapy can transform everybody into an
excellent therapist, even you:
> ... intuitively ... you, in your present 'condition',
> are something of a danger
> to yourself and others.
If that's really your opinion,
why don't you call the police?
> Your own non-response to
> letters, comprised of your
> brain-blown rant, are devoid
> of any meaningful interaction
> with those who have taken
> the trouble to speak to you.
Meaningful means what?
That you understand it?
But aren't you getting
it intuitively?
> Ask yourself this, V; what more
> are you now, than a hair-trigger
> of judgmentalism?
At least she's not a therapist.
That's a big step into the direction
of normality.
> Are you not ready to condemn anyone
> who dares manifest their own nature,
> as they try to speak with you?
You try to speak? Let me understand it.
Do you speak or not?
Ok, let's assume you spoke.
Then what did you try?
Hhhm.. I'll ask my intuition...
Ok here it is: so you tried to
make her think what you think,
make her believe what you believe,
make her acknowledge your greatness.
And you didn't succed, that's why
you call it "I tried to speak with you".
But that's exactly why I call her
more normal than you, Gene.
She has her own way of thinking and
expressing herself.
And daring to manifest their own nature
is who? Name two members of this list.
And don't include me, I'm not daring
to manifest nature and I don't own
it anyway - it owns me.
> I cannot blame the readers here,
> for reluctance to try to communicate
> with you, V. So far, your only response
> has been to accuse the entire world of
> VICTIMIZING you.
According to my personal experience,
there are not many readers in this
groups - mainly writers. In your words:
many try to speak, but nobody listens.
But victimizing is everywhere, it's part
of the global social conditioning at large.
Everybody is victimizing others and feeling
victimized her/himself. Trying not to feel
and act victimized is no cure at all -
it's only the opposite - the wet dream
within the nightmare.
In a way you seem to accuse Valerie of expressing
her ego-shadow. While you express the luminescent
ego - the white hero, the therapist. No use.
Both are games. But with her game she is at least
feeling bad - hence she's going to stop it sooner
or later. While you seem to feel great with you
role. Consequently you will never stop it.
I repeat: if you really feel Valerie needed
therapy (and you see yourself as a therapist),
go over and do it. All else is just hot air.
> And your psychiatrist (a real MD?) is
> actually a TRANSGENDER person?
Better having both sexes than no one at all.
What I mean by that, dear Gene
(you go for MEANING, don't you?):
it is not your business the judge
therapists. Especially as you yourself
are beyond any further therapy as it looks like.
But I may be wrong and you may be a real
therapist. So: if you can do it better -
then go and do it.
> Let me congratulate you, V, for
> your amazing ability to cram yourself
> to the very bottom of the deepest rut;
> and for your powerful talent of RESENTMENT
> and BLAME. Truly, you are the WINNER of the
> grand prize for the ULTIMATE LOSER!
Makes me second? So even in becoming
the world's greates looser I lost?
Shit!
Gene I thought ranting was something
you did not approve of. I'm happy to
learn that that is not really the case.
> Seldom if ever, have I seen such a
> consistent display of SELF-SABOTAGE.
You've not met me yet.
> I will NOT date a woman
> who puts herself DOWN!
Woman on top! Yeah!
There's a movie with that title,
did you know?
> Because a person, man or woman
> who puts themself down, will soon
> enough be putting down EVERYONE
> ELSE.
Especially poor Gene, who wants to be
topmost therapist in town?
> AND THAT is sheer misery, for you and
> for everyone involved. You have to ask
> yourself; in your current disheveled
> state, will ANYONE become involved
> with you?
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.
Your text is pure social conditioning,
therapy in it's essence: strengthening
the adaption, strengthening the ego
(especially that of the therapist).
Perhaps she wants to get involved with
herself after all that many years of
listening to somebody else?
> In loving concern...
Loving? You are loving?
But not ready to meet her?
Gene, you are a walking lie,
a talking lie.
Or a living lie, trying to talk?
Kabir
--
Disclaimer:
This posting is about and for Gene,
not about or for Valerie. When I
wrote "Valerie" I meant Gene's view
of her.
Mon Jul 5, 2004 7:21 pm
Re: ???leaky memory??? http://www.stand-upcomedy.com/logotran.gif
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" <mail@h...> wrote:
> Even god does not know the next second.
Then where does it come from, this next moment?
> And you can take for granted that I am myself.
Naturally, I take for granted what I feel,
not what you want to convince everybody about.
Otherwise I would be in the same situation
as you are in, and I've enough to do with the
situation I am in.
There seems to be a hell of a difference between
your self-image and what I get from your emails
about you. For example the more confidence you
try to express about you being yourself, the more
shaky and insecure I feel you are.
> So, this "phantasy of myself" is referring to your
> invitation to imagine (=phantasy) myself in her shoes,
> this very act being in and from the mind.
> Or do I miss something?
The mind needs preparation, information,
understanding before the truth hits it.
That's what books like Irina Tweedies are for.
The whole society is overly mindful,
that cannot be left with the snap
of a finger or some wishful so called
"positive" thinking.
> I have already offered you the possibility to stay for ever.
> I'll repeat it for you: "Quick reaction: be my guest."
Guest or prisoner?
> I was very disappointed that already a few hours later you
> tried to escape: "If you continue without showing more
> of yourself to step into my conversations
> with others, I will finally simply leave."
Aha, more a prisoner then...
Just remember: I'm not going to fullfill your
expectations. No single being on the whole wide
world is going to fullfill your expectations.
Not even your Self.
> But Amil (for you ENLIGHTENED MASTER Ivan LIKEYOU) did not
> maul your bait: ....
You are constanly checking, what who said to whom.
And quoting it. Even quoting yourself from earlier
postings. Even telling stories about your past,
to express a present feeling. That's like putting
snowballs into the fridge to keep Christmas forever,
to delay the melting...
But spring comes and everything grows by itself.
Even such an idiot like me grows ... mostly older.
Kabir
Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:06 am
KABIR ALARM
Quite simple:
It's more important who you are, than what you write.
And I am not you. So any comparision of what you do
and what I do is just that: a futile comparision.
As far as I am concerned, EMIL:
show your face or shut up.
In my book spirituality is about
making oneself open and vulnerable.
And I am not ready to give up that
ideal only because you define yourself
as AN ENLIGHTENED BIG BULL.
If you continue without showing more
of yourself to step into my conversations
with others, I will finally simply leave.
Vomit wherever you want,
but not into my direction
and not about what I write.
Get out of my way.
I'm not going to tolerate your
disturbance any longer. Full stop.
Kabir
Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:08 pm
AMBER ALARM: VERBAL TERRORIST WARNING
PLEASE STAND BACK BEHIND THE INVISIBLE
POLICE LINE OF YOUR MIND AND KEEP THE
SPRITUAL CHILDREN OUT OF THE SPIRITUAL
ICE CREAM SHOP - AAH - OUT OF THE SATSANGS.
Intelligence... Well "intelligence" nowadays means
something different than some years ago, doesn't it?
So, intelligence has received information
about an impeding bombing or car race in this
area. It's yet unsure which will be more
dangerous, so please prepare for both.
The Munich anti-terror squad received the
following confessor letter by heavily armed
carrier pigeon:
---------------- snip ---------------------
EMIL is thinking, I HAVE DEVELOPED?
All of a sudden he is seeing something in my posts,
to which his spiritual ambition resonates?
The papers are full of news about car bombs and
beheading and full of pictures with men who exhibit
HEAVY WEAPONS and hide their faces in an attempt
to terrify others and show themselves as militarily
more powerful, religiously more developed and
emotionally at least equally retarded as the US president.
And now one of those characters has found his way back
into this list and choses to call me (though only with
a doubting questionmark) with the word "developed"?
In his religion that might even mean something positive?
Allah, what have I done wrong to suffer such Karma?
I will behead you all !!!!!
Inshallah !
Mustafa al Kabir
------------------- snip ----------------------
Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:52 pm
Re: ???leaky memory??? http://www.stand-upcomedy.com/logotran.gif
Hi Hans,
> > This is about feeling, feeeeeling, feeeeeeeeeeeeeling.
> I was afraid (and yes, rejoice again, I felt that)
> that you would play this trick, even considered to make
> it a bit more difficult by telling you this in advance.
> I did not.
What trick, Hans? Feeling is not a trick but a natural
phenomenon. 24 hours a day.
> From now on I will call you Michael.
Fine.
> I have had enough
> of this quasi unasked for Master-dedain. Fuck off.
Unasked? You went from one Satsang teacher to the
other and call this unasked? You may not have asked
me personally, but why shouldn't I say what I mean?
Your whole being ist expressing itself through
every sentence, and I should not answer that, but
rather "behave" and answer only to what your personality
wants to hear?
> I am here to communicate with other humans. That most
> of us are trapped, more or less, in this teaching game
> is clear and not a problem.
As you can see by yourself, that the emotional trap you are
in, make it nearly impossible to communicate. And the
spritual theory on top of that emotional trap doesn't
make it better. If you can't see it in yourself, perhaps
you can see it in other members of this list.
> What I don't like is this one-way-nagging all the time.
If this was a one-way street, you are just driving into
the wrong direction. You are doing your share of nagging,
Hans. Mainly in the form of complaining.
> I have asked you several personal questions, you did not
> answer any of them. It is clear to me that you only want
> to play "Living Kabir". Be my guest. Just do what you do.
I am not your guest and I'm not your answering machine.
I'm not talking from that level where you are and want
everybody else to be too. Just think of me being on the
level below you. Just below the grass and flowers whith
which you have beautified your existence. And I'm a worm
from below, drilling holes in the garden so that finally
you may fall down into what is below the peace and beauty
of your nice little personal paradise.
> I mean, you can not be serious when you speak to
> me like this:
>
> > You said: "I felt neglected."
> >
> > I say: "That's perfect! That was exactly what
> > I intended. That is the medicine. And it's great,
> > that you took it and tasted it."
Never been more serious to you than then.
> Even the list owner (for the moment I will keep
> calling him n0by) felt drawn to speak on my behalf:
Seeking protection from N0by? You must be desperate.
> "Any attack on inbuild identification system,
> Mother, Father, Children, Guru, possession,
> taste, etc. brings bad feelings - but
> Hans is strong enough to stay with this."
It's not your personality which
is strong enough but your heart.
And it's not my fault if these two
are not in tune with each other.
> What is this? A coordinated action to undermine my
> Authority? CIA, Cheyney? Ramarshi himself?
Nature.
Years and years you have asked for personal
development and slowly, slowly a situation
developed in you, which will answer this quest.
People around you will start delivering the
answers to your questions, situations will
develop such, that all and everything favours
your personal development.
> Just kidding (you start doubting everything here, jeez,
> may be they think that I am really paranoia).
Not at all. See my explanation above.
Perhaps what should be added is:
personal development means dismantling the person.
> Thanks for the new name, Michael.
> Irina Tweedie,
> sounds good.
Yeah, but she's dead allready.
But her books are some of the rare
occassions where the truth about
spiritual development is spoken out.
> I don't have a clou what you mean. And besides that,
> Michael, construct your metaphors after waking up, will you?
> I mean: FAMILY PACKAGES
> And than: HOMEOPATIC APPROACH
I doubt very much, that at the moment we both have
the same idea about what "waking up" means.
Family package = big, enormuous amount of, more than
enough for a single person.
Homeopatic approach = increasing the illness to
strengthen the natural healing power.
Modern masters and Satsang teachers give lots
of attention to the attention-seekers. Nadeen for
example let everybody sit in his (nadeen's) chair
and tell the audience about his (the seeker's)
enlightenment.
The seeker's ego is blown up, until it becomes
unbearable any more. When I'm at home I'll pick
a quote by Rajneesh to make that more clear.
Rajneesh was the first to use spirituality
for ego-feeding, and the whole spiritual circus
is copying his techniques.
> "C'mon, C'mon"
I'm just informing, that's all I do.
And it's difficult enough.
> Great wink to the second described meeting with my teacher.
You mean your attention-dealer, probably.
That was only the salesman, who flattered
you more and more into spirituality.
Your true teacher has yet to reveal itself to you.
If and when She does that, is up to Her.
But then there will not be the slightest
shadow of a doubt. Again promised.
> > [ about tweedies book ] It will be a revelation, I promise.
> Take a look again at what you promise!!!!!!!!!!!
> A phantasy of myself is going to reveal?????????
What did you smoke? I talk about revelation
and you hear "phantasies"? Another word for
"revelation" is "frustration". Still interested?
> > Finally you have recognized,
> > why I call you a pot-head.
> May be you finally recognised something. I did not.
Don't give up. .o)
> Be my guest again.
Think again. I'm an uncomfortable guest.
If you say that a third time, I'll never
leave again.
Let's not forget:
Ego is the Mother of Jones,
The Essence of Bondage.
Kabir dicit.
Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:31 am
Re: ???leaky memory???
--- Hans van der Gugten wrote:
> Now exactly a week ago I spoke to you with more than ever
> my own words.
> I noticed that you did not react.
> I felt neglected, certainly when in between you started to
> do to this Caminamos what i just before already did.
> So your conclusion that he needs a hearing aid was
> already clear.
> You might be commenting on your own behaviour here.
Oh no, Hans. This list is not about behaviour.
And the whole path isn't either.
This is about feeling, feeeeeling, feeeeeeeeeeeeeling.
You said: "I felt neglected."
I say: "That's perfect! That was exactly what
I intended. That is the medicine. And it's great,
that you took it and tasted it."
Haven't you read Irina Tweedie's diary-like
description of her path? "Daughter of Fire -
A Diary of a Spiritual Training with a Sufi Master".
I just open it and read on one of it's 800+ pages:
11th January
" [...] He did not speak to us at all the whole morning,
and in the evening we sat in the dark room and he was with
his family in the next room. I could just see his profile,
the white beard, looking like a prophet with his grey topy.
It suits him. But about seven, Sharma came in with some other
men. So, he came out hurriedly. The same story repeats itself
again: he will never come out for us. If others are there,
we may benefit from his presence. But if we are alone, he lets
us sit in the dark room... and he does not care that H. will
be here for only two more weeks. And she made such sacrifices
in order to be able to come... "
Hans, we want attention. For a child this is natural.
A child cannot survive without it's mother's attention.
We have grown bodily since childhood, but we have not grown
up spiritually. It's not our fault, the whole society is
spiritually retarded, the whole society is kept (and keeping
itself) on the level of a needy child indefinatedly.
Needing attention. Paying with attention like junkies
pay each other with a piece.
Addicted to getting attention.
It's not our fault, but it's our responseablity,
it's our job to become natural again.
To become free of this attention-addiction.
Hard way but can be done (I know some ... .o)
The Satsang teachers deal this dope in family packages.
An homeopatic approach, I would say.
Except for those, who might be ready for the medicine.
Like Irana Tweedie was ready.
Read her book. Buy it and read it,
and imagine you in her shoes.
It will be a revelation, I promise.
Finally you have recognized,
why I call you a pot-head.
Not because of Mary Jane,
no, not at all.
But because you are an
attention-addict, Hans.
Kabir
--
"Enlightenment" is OUT.
"Withdrawal treatment" is IN
Ego is the Mother of Jones.
Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:19 pm
Re: ???leaky memory???
Ach, Hans,
you travel the internet and pick all kinds of wisom
words, jokes and links. Like this text on the link
> http://www.spirit-alembic.com/gnosticism.html
"Nobody can "define" another person's Gnosis..
for it is uniquely one's own."
But then, Hans, why do you pick other people's words?
According to my experience, there are all kinds
of individual differences but the spiritual realm
also has some laws (laws of nature not of humans).
For example:
Gnosis comes from within.
And with "within" I don't mean the mind,
mind you. Thinking cannot bring it.
Kabir
--
Individuality has a divine copy-protection
- it is immediatedly lost when copied -
The above is not individual, because
I have written it another time allready.
Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:54 pm
Re: The ocean of your being
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, Caminamos <caminamosnet@y...> wrote:
>
> Let the waters of your mind rest quietly and you will
> discover the depth of the ocean of your being.
>
> http://www.wewalk.net
Whatever it is,
river or ocean,
don't piss into.
Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:13 pm
Re: The return of innocence
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, Caminamos <caminamosnet@y...> wrote:
>
> Every day I find new reasons to follow the path of
> calmness and dedicating the rest of my life to the
> return of innocence.
>
> http://www.wewalk.net
Fake innocence is no innocence.
True innocence needs no reason.
BUT YOU SEEM TO NEED A HEARING AID.
With Love
Kabir
Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:10 pm
A spanish fly in the butter is NOT a butterfly
--- Caminamos wrote:
> Beyond within,
> We walk
First become human again,
a practical everyday human,
show your face and real name,
how you live and who your
friends are etc. And use a non-
cryptic, simple and straight language.
Then and only then I MIGHT
consider that there is more
beyond your words within you
than just hot Spanish air.
The bible says (Isaiah 29:4):
"Then deep from the earth you shall speak,
from low in the dust your words shall come;
your voice shall come from the ground
like the voice of a ghost, and your
speech shall whisper out of the dust."
But you, Caminamos, you don't wisper out
of the dust, you shout down recitations
from the pinnacles of your self-created
castle without showing yourself.
Holy shit, who do you think, you are?
My birthname is Michael, so better think
twice before you claim to be a messenger
of God - or I'll go and ask Her.
Kabir
--
Life is about WHO we are
and not WHAT we pretend to be.
Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:37 pm
Re: Hans, 10 centimeters will not do.
--- adithya wrote:
> I have *only* 18 X 14 centimeters. What can I do?
That's terrible. The third dimension is totally missing?
Just a flat 18x14 ?
What happened? Been in deep meditation
while the enormuous Ma in the seat before you
got enlightened and started to jump up n down
screaming "I got it, I GOT IT"?
just curious. she got it?
Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:47 pm
I am not a butterfly - or have you ever been hit by a butterfly?
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, Caminamos <caminamosnet@y...> wrote:
> Everything has been caused by a previous event, and it
> causes, at the same time, one or several new events.
This is a philosophical question,
which is not neccessarily true
and not neccessarily false.
The second of your statements is more human,
hence more important I think:
> Remember that every positive or negative thing we
> think, speak or do, have an effect not only in our
> life, but in the whole Universe.
For example:
If somebody shows words of philosophy and (perhaps)
wisdom and beautiful pictures but shows nothing about
himself, the effect will be, that those coming into
contact with him will become more interested in
philosophy and words than in themselves. Or - to
put it into new-age phraseology: the readers
are pulled into philosophy, ideas, words and pictures
instead of into themselves.
That's why I say the new age sprituality is
rather a symptom of what they want to overcome
than the cure.
Example:
> http://www.wewalk.net
I walk. You walk. He/she/it walks.
"We walk" is only true for Siamese twins.
Are you THAT?
Kabir
P.S.
You see: your posting had an effect, namely
rising criticism. But perhaps this was
intended and perfectly planed by the spirit
in you, when it gave you the impulse to
write what you wrote? Then seeing cause and
effect as separate would be nothing but
a symtom of your division (as in fact both
would be happening in you by you).
In my opinion such concepts show only that
too much importance is given to the mind
in our cultural herirage. And repeating
them like you do is a sure sign of being
bound to that old world (i.e. either the
speaker is still living there or the intended
audience).
The latter might give you an idea,
why I write how I write. Or in my words:
first look into the mirror before calling
the ambulance for me.
Did I get me?
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:54 pm
Answer to Hans
--- Hans wrote [to Kabir]:
> What makes this few sentences for you so important?
> Or was it just that you found it?
They are important for me.
This seems to be the essence of Osho's teaching
during the early years (later sixtiexs and
early seventies). As I came into closer contact
with Osho's Sannyas only much later (1980),
I have only the films and lectures from that
time to get an idea about what was going on
in the beginning.
There must have been going on something, else
Sannyas would not have grown that fast and big.
And it certainly was different from what was
going on later (there were no longer these
intense bodywork- and encountergroups in the famous
"cellars" for example).
I see it as follows:
Say: when a new Harry Potter movie comes out,
the fans who are "really" interested are the
first to stand in line for the tickets and
get up in the middle of the night to see the
very first screening.
So in the early seventies the ones who were strongly
interested in Sannyas went to India and Osho worked
with them in the way the work is done with committed
disciples. The lazy ones (like me) came later and then
the intensity and hardship of the work was greatly
reduced (perhaps otherwise I would not have come at all).
Why else should He have changed His teaching so drastically?
The intense techniques and therapies must have worked well,
many of the "early birds" became therapists or got leading
jobs to do in his Ashrams, didn't they?
hence it was not the question of the work being ineffective,
yet it was changed - why?
One possible answer: because the later disciples needed
different techniques.
Knifes and forks for the meat, spoons for the pudding.
Seen from THAT angle, the old sentences
have really some importance, don't they?
Kabir
Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:18 am
Re: New file uploaded to n0by
Yeah, Hans, the sound is really bad.
It's from (I think) The Book of Secrets Vol. V
--------------------------
For this age cartharsis is a must.
Noone can reach to the Guide,
to the Inner Guide,
without catharsis,
with a long conflict with the Inner Guide.
And everybody is born with the Inner Guide,
but it's not allowed to work, to function.
When something comes from the Inner,
it comes from the navel upwards.
The master or the guru, the outer guru,
can be helpful only to find out the
Inner Guru - that far.
Once the outer guru has helped you to find
the Inner Guru, the function of the
outer guru is no more.
--------------------------
This is as I hear it, but perhaps I've
misinterpreted it? The meaning becomes
somewhat better for me, when I play it
on repetetition and listen to it several
times with closed eyes.
Greetings
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:12 pm
Re: real champions amongst us
Hans, you do not seem to know
what is going on in the non-public
parts of a spiritual school.
And the non-public is it where
most of the work is done.
Why do you think, they are called
"esotheric" schools?
Have you not recognized, that disciples
live together with the teacher in houses
or monasteries for years?
And that's not only the case in Zen.
I know for example the Miracle of Love
has commune houses where the elder disciples
live together with one or more members
of the inner circle (so to speak).
On the surface all is very ego-friendly,
but behind the stage it's not so easy
(for the ego).
Rule No 1 in such environments: you do
what the teacher/trainer/guru/master says.
This was allways so in the past
and is is still so all over the
world. Spices may change, but
the meat remains the same.
And because the egoistic society
would go against it, it is not
made too public. Although it's
happening right under our eyes
- one just has to look carefully.
> One question left: was there a ratio between intense and
> uncomfortable.
Sure, it was not allways stressing. One could not
live through such a setup. And mind you: it was caring
and loving - but uncomfortable for egotisms,
lies, illusions, "games" and mindfuck.
What an open and feeling person might call "loving"
could well be a very intense and shameful situation
for (say) a notorious liar or (say) a very negative
person or (say) somebody who is sucking and demanding
attention etc. etc. etc.
Ask people living in the Ashram of a living teacher.
Read about the half-year experiment Paul Lowe was
doing in Italy.
Read between the lines in the books of disciples.
It is just there under your nose.
It is not really hidden, but it gets neglected
an pushed aside by our minds.
> I mean 5000 hours of "intense + uncomfortable" encounters?
> What the f* where you doing?
I can understand that you have difficulties to
understand that. But your ignorance is not my
fault. And your wishfull thinking about 2 hours
a day makes me smile. For years and years I'm
trying to inform that spirituality is not only
flowers and soft music and beautiful maidens
in Satsang. That this is only the showroom.
Those who are on the path, know allready,
and the others don't want to know anyway.
So I could as well shut up in the future...
But 2 hours a day? Forget about it.
Live your truth 24/7 - or drop it here & now.
SATYANANDA wrote after his years on the Ranch
(I write it down from memory)
"If you have not yet played
with the idea of suicide,
your path has not yet begun."
OOOOPS! PLAYING WITH THE IDEA OF SUICIDE?
Why should he write such a sentence?
What has this to do with the spiritual path?
Greetings
Kabir
--
The easy way is the waiting loop.
Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:05 pm
Re: Oh, come on, you old bugger
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, no by <n0by4you@y...> wrote:
> [...] and I have
> experienced people, like Kabir, who can stand my way!
That might give you an impression about how hard
my preparatory training by B. must have been .o)
Kabir
Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:28 pm
HANS, MY GOD!
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "Hans van der Gugten" <mail@h...> wrote:
> [...] being here means that everybody can dump anything
> on you, preferably packaged as a blessing.
That's called Satsang.
> My experience is, that when I really ask for real,
> no answer comes.
MY GOD! I WAS SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF MY VOICE AND
YOU JUST REFUSED TO RECOGNIZE IT.
> So, this place is basicly just for learning.
> Give up all hopes. Whatever happens, happens.
> And so it is.
What do you think an ordinary Satsang or Ashram
is made for? For Orgasms? Flower Power Happiness?
What do you think the infamous Here&Now is made of?
Of HOPES?????
You come with your little hopes to a teacher.
The teacher looks at you and gets it instantly
wether you are ready to give up your hopes or not.
If you are ready: you'll get de-hoped right from the
start. If you are not ready: you'll receive more hopes
(enlightenment, nirvana, god, meditation, peace,
cosmic orgasm, global acceptance, whatever).
That's called homeopathic healing, making you more
ill until you activate your own healing power
(i.e. until you are toitally fed-up of living
your life out of hopes).
> You don't believe what people are willing to believe
> in order not to experience the here and now.
PEOPLE??? What people? Name one.
(hint: first letter is an "H")
> (And yes, this is totall arrogance, cause from where
> I am now I also remember a phase in my life where I
> 'believed' in physical immortality).
Vereesh is using that as one of his deeply poisoned baits.
You have been with Veeresh.
> And it is so obvious what everybody here believes.
> And it is so obvious that only the willingness to
> at least investigate what you believe (comes down to:
> are my thought true?), will lead to more freedom.
So you are programmed to believe in freedom.
That's a tough one. Poor soul.
And: thoughts are never true.
Especially not yours.
> So it is painfull to see believers in action.
> And it is as painfull to fight them.
> Just teasing a bit might help.
> This is one of my believes now.
So you believe essentially, that only
the others are the "heavy" believers,
while you are somewhat free from belive and
only doing it as an experiment.
Who is more insane - the insane one who accepts,
that he is insane, or the insane one who is
sure that he is not as insane as others?
The believer who believes that he believes less
(or less dangerous believes) than the other
stupid believing believers?
> Just a quote from this list's past.
CMD is gone, long live the next list archiver!
This is going to be the BIGGEST ARCHIVE
OF THE HERE AND NOW (giggle).
> To show that Living Kabir (What's in a name?
> More specificly: what is in this name? Humility?
> Arrogance? self knowledge?)
Can't you think straight for a second?
I was given the name Kabir by my teacher and
I decided to use it in this list. Because the
name I had given myself (Ka) was somewhat too
agressive after a while. Now, "Kabir" is associated
with that old Indian poet and mystic and anyway
the Yahoo-ID kabir was allready taken.
So I had to decribe that I was different
from that old Kabir...
"German Kabir"? - ugly
"Little Kabir"? - like Bonanza's Little Joe? Size would fit.
"Unreal Kabir"? - would not be fair to myself
So what difference is there between me and the
old Indian? Right! I'm still living while he is dead.
And this "living" also fits to my old name from
Bhagwan: "Jivano" - Life.
That was my decision process. Now look at
all the stuff you tried to interprete into it.
Hans, you are a dope-head. And all the spiritual
ideas you took in are more dangerous than any
power plant could ever be. You cannot even
think simple and straight. DO YOU GET IT?
YOUR MIND IS HIGHLY UNRELIABLE BY NOW!
Perfect. Unspoken but intended result
of modern Satsangs.
Your only chance from now on: let your heart
decide everything, and don't try to make any
sense out of anything. Your mind is not only
an extremely old model, but it's broken.
FOOBAR. FUCKED UP BEYOND ANY RECOGNITION.
Stop trying to be intellectual,
that's really not your talent.
Same with me by the way.
Kabir
Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:25 pm
Re: talking to ...Kabir.
Adithya, you may be talking to yourself
to a bigger extend than you are aware of.
To yourself and about yourself.
In German we have the word "verarschen",
which translates verbally into
"to ass someone"
meaning "to kid someone", "to muck someone about",
"to play someone for a sucker", "to take someone for a ride",
"to take the mick out of someone", "to take the mickey
out of someone", "to take the piss out of someone"
or "to twit someone". But allways with the "ass" in it,
like behaving as an "ass" towards someone or treating
the other as an "ass".
And that's my feeling about your postings:
You "ass" everybody
One technique to do that is to play stupid,
answer as if you got only the verbal level
of what the other wrote. The next of your
techniques (similiar to the first one) is it,
to neglect the undertones and consequences
of what is said. I call that one "sticking to
the surface". And then the resistance to answer
to the emotional touch of what is said or refuse
to answer emotionally yourself. Let me call that
latter one: "playing the robot".
And so on and so forth...
Example:
> Let us talk.
> …of course, just for the sake of talk.
> I have nothing to better to do.
After first having emitted a lot of spiritual
talk, like "there is nothing to gain...".
How stupid do you think we are?
> >> [...] you are in an awful hurry.
> Yes, Kabir, Yes, …I know. My boss [...]
And all posting full of blaming. Blaming
circumstances and other persons: ...my boss...
...the work-life... society...
So on top of "ass"ing everybody you are an escaper.
First pretending - then escaping.
Wether you are conscious about it or not is irrelevant.
Kabir
--
If you are avoiding
the emotional aspect
of your search,
then you are
taking the piss
out of yourself.
Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:31 am
Re: ...nothing to lose, ...nothing to gain.
Hi Adithya,
> I am very angry. I missed the express train because of bad
> directions. Now, I am sitting on a local train and it is going to
> take me forty minutes longer.
For somebody who claims
that there is nothing to gain
you are in an awful hurry.
For somebody interested in consciousness
you put the blame very easily unto others.
For sombody claiming to be uninterested in
(or allready complete with) the modern
spirituality you have too many spiritual
quotes and ideas and concepts ready
in your mind for instantanuous retrieval.
Mindgames - the "nothing to lose"
as well as "enlightenment" or the
"ready-made answers for all and everything".
There is nothing to gain - for the mind.
There is nothing to lose - for the being.
Your mind is very quick.
Great - I love fast computers.
Yet the faster it is,
the bigger is the addiction
to playing (and believing) it's games.
To dissolve just a tiny part of this addiction
(the spiritual Osho-programming) took me
5000 hours of intense and uncomfortable
hours in direct face-to-face being-to-being
encounters with a living master.
How long might it take you?
Zen-people say it takes 20 years - 10 within
the monastery and 10 on your own afterwards.
That's a little more than just playing computer-
games in an email list without any committment
and without any master working on you.
Where the participants don't even have
enough discipline to edit the quotes for
readability.
Let me take an excerpt from your text
and answer to it. Just as an example.
> Freedom is very strange thing.
> Complete freedom means that you have
> freedom to be ecstatic, orgasmic,
> oceanic but you also have freedom
> to be pathetic, pissed and squeezed.
> Complete freedom is a great
> luxury that can be used both ways,
> ...and the humans have tried very
> hard to get rid of. [ ... etc, etc, etc ...]
A computer is not free.
Even if it is programmed with all
the books in the world about freedom,
it remains a (great and wonderful
but nevertheless programmed)
input-processing-output device.
The programmer counts, not the program.
The projector counts, not the projection.
Or another example of your mind:
> Ok, ...let us talk about Osho.
>
> Osho had a beautiful beard, ...big eyes,
> ...and authored more than
> 400 books. And, that's the end of my
> knowledge of ....Osho.
I did not start to talk about Osho,
I just pointed at the fact, that your
emails seem to be full of his phrases.
Your cup is overflowing with Osho-tea.
You are spilling it all over the place.
Playing the wise not-knower but arrogantly
(and indirectly) claiming that you know better.
And you think you can decide about whom
"we" are talking?
Well - let me tell you once and for all:
I decide about what and whom (and with whom
and when and how) I am talking. Not you.
Should you ever want to learn something
from anybody else but from your own mind
(which is programmed to be arrogant because
that's part of it being manipulatable),
I repeat: should you ever want to learn
something from somebody else, then be prepared
to let the other decide about the topic of
conversation.
Spirituality is not about Osho or enlightenment
or God or whatever. It's about you - for you,
for me it's about me.
But you are free to evade the topic of
facing yourself until your deathbed.
That's the only (illusion of) freedom we have.
Kabir
--
The modern pseudo-spirituality
is an excellent excuse for everything.
That's what is was made for:
a teaching device to experience the ego.
Because there is no bigger ego than a
spiritual one - gnostic or agnostic.
Wed Jun 9, 2004 7:33 am
Re: ...nothing to lose, ...nothing to gain.
--- adithya_comming wrote:
> You are very welcome, …Kabir!
We shall see.
> (perhaps), …more tomorrow.
Three errors in one little sentence,
one understandable and two severe ones.
perhaps:
that's the understandable one;
nobody is sure what will happen.
more & tomorrow:
mousetraps big enough to catch elephants
The rest of your email is not for me,
at least I do not feel to be addressed.
I'm neither a bacterium nor can I fly
(I tried once as a little boy and broke
my arm, that's how I think I know).
But as I see it:
You're on high-fligh, my friend.
Looks like energy-induced. Nothing
special. Many people will experience
similiar states during the next years.
The melting of the barriers, I'd call it.
And it's said (by Maitreya Ishwara
and others also), that it will become
stronger. Eat some bread or take a cold
shower if it becomes too much.
Stay cool, man. And don't flip out
in case it switches from high to low.
The low is part of the whole also.
No need to act according to the
low feelings by the way. Just feeling
them is enough. No action is best action
when it gets dark.
Just experience what happens.
Watch it, don't judge yourself.
This is not enlightenment, it's
simply your nature breaking through.
Let it happen. And let negative feelings
(should they appear) also happen.
So called "negative" experiences are
neccessary to deepen and purify the
human psyche, I think.
Kabir
--
Master Propper is a cleansing agent
and not a food additive.
Tue Jun 8, 2004 8:27 am
Silence speaks, Adithya squeaks.
What wisdom! What beauty!
What depth of understanding!
See for yourself:
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "adithya_comming" <adithya_comming@y...>
wrote:
> Silence speaks,
> ...so, ...had I heard.
>
> So, I stayed silent,
> ...trying to hear the silence,
> its speech, ...its words.
>
> Minutes passed,
> ...nothing happened.
> Just a broad smile,
> ...on the face.
> ...that kept getting bigger and deeper,
> until the jaw ...hurt.
>
> Silence didn't speak,
> ...nothing, ...I heard.
>
> It was past seven,
> ...and, a sparrow chirped.
> The breeze passed the through the leaves,
> The rays fell on the door,
> but voice of the silence,
> ...I never heard.
>
> I went to the lake,
> ...and watched some waves,
> The wind was dancing,
> ...the light was at play.
>
> The glitters of Las Vegas were,
> ...just a poor imitation,
> just a cheap replace.
> I kept waiting,
> ...but silence never spake.
>
> I watched the waves,
> ...and, it changed shape.
> The leaves were falling from the tree,
> ...as if for my sake.
> The light was golden,
> ...the breeze was touching my face.
>
> But, I kept waiting,
> ...the silence still didn't spake.
>
> The roses were in bloom,
> the stream was in flow,
> the leaves made some music,
> ...with the wind blow.
>
> The day was so bright,
> ...
Tue Jun 8, 2004 5:24 am
Re: ...nothing to lose, ...nothing to gain.
Then why do you speak up, if there is nothing to
lose or to gain for you? Why?
And what do you have to say?
> Wise or fool, ...the earth can take many more,
> real or fake, ...the earth can bear many more,
> lying or truthful, ...makes not much difference.
No, it does make a difference. To me it's
making a lot of a difference.
You try to beautify your mail with an Osho quote.
And then write as if you have understood it.
This guy you were quoting was not only speaking,
but living his life out of the realm beyond
duality. You copy advaita words with your mind,
and what comes out is not beyond but rather
limited by your own spiritual greed. Your
Indian-spiritual greed to have something
important to say.
I've heard:
A woman had bought a new hat and she was so
proud of it, that she kept wearing it on all
occassions. Such a beautiful hat. It made
her look pretty and wise at the same time.
Colourful, tasty. A dream hat.
Then her man said to her:
"Darling, please at least take off this hat
during our lovemaking! I never know wether
you are coming or going."
With you and me the situation is similiar,
Adithya.
Please take off your spiritual head,
I never know wether you are comming
or going.
And don't try to impress me with your
fake spiritual orgasms either while I'm
watching TV. Please. At least try to
limit them to the advertisement-periods.
I've seen and heard so many of them
during my time as an Osho-Sannyasin
that I'm fed up with them, believe me.
Yesterday you even had one when they scored
a goal against Germany. Now that is too much!
That's where your female freedom to ejaculate
has to end.
got me?
Kabir
Tue Jun 8, 2004 5:16 am
http://kabir.de fixed
Some incompatibilty cause errors on my site
when viewed with an Internet Explorer.
This is fixed.
Mon Jun 7, 2004 9:58 pm
Greetings.
I just got some professional advertisement (about webservers) and
realized a pattern, which seems to be everywhere:
cheaper, cheaper, cheaper - getting everything for nothing.
So who pays the bill? Who does the work?
I don't exclude myself. It's the same with me: I want to live nicely
- and I don't want to clean everyday. I want to have money -
and there are many things which I hate to do (like my taxes).
We want to get as much as we can -
and we don't want to pay for it.
Doing everything we feel like doing without
accepting the negative consequences.
It's everywhere. Bush thinks he can do
what he wants to do (if he thinks at all).
And we think, just a little positive thinking
will fix everything. Just listening more
or less attentively to some lectures, going to
some Satsangs, just some understanding, just
believing it strongly enough and whoosh!
we are enlightened (or at least satisfied and happy).
I write this to you, because in this list
it's the same. Big words are taken for reality.
Thinking is thought to be everything.
Words, words, words... beautiful words,
words of wisdom. So wonderful, so beautiful
are these words and concepts of awareness
and development and all other new age concepts,
that the normal everyday judgement seems to be
totally forgotten. As if everybody is full of
spirituality like a junkie is full of whatever
he's taking.
Yet for my feeling there is a reality behind
these dreams. Our attitude is not going to
last much longer, the point of return is
long past - we only don't want to recognize it.
There is something going on behind the words.
And this time words will not be enough
to pay the bill, universe is no longer
accepting our cheques.
That's my feeling.
Kabir
--
What goes up must come down.
Mon Jun 7, 2004 9:34 pm
cannot tolerate the shit happening in this list any longer
and are also unable to close myself against it or ignore it
when I continue to be a member.
Sat May 8, 2004 7:53 pm
Just an answer
--- In n0by@yahoogroups.com, "bduval2000" <bduval@x> wrote:
> As if I am so holly?
> [...]
> I feel like a complete fool.
Hi Benoit,
I call myself Ka or Kabir. You can get an idea about
who I am at myhomepage (see my Yahoo-Profile).
BTW please show your face also.
I'm neither holy and I was also brought up by women.
So what? I have been in the therapy circus for 5
and in the Bhagwan circus for 12 years. And it took
me years of work to come out of this shit. So what?
Somebody might have spoiled the garden of your house
by riding a heating-oil-truck through the fence and
watering your grass and flowers with 200 liters of oil.
Will you complain? Shoot the driver? Run to the next lawyer?
Or organize some help and take a showel to avoid that
the oil infiltrate the groundwater? And how long are
you going to ponder over this decision?
I was in a similiar situation as you are after 12 Years
of being "a Sannyasin". A little better off perhaps,
because I could not blame anybody else. And a little
worse, because I had gone for the "Headwash with Bhagwan
Heating Oil" voluntarily.
Many here in this list are in a similiar situation,
their hairwash may vary, but the smell is similiar.
And be careful, not few have made a party out of it
(and a fashion to wear oily hair styles). They even
go on carrying oil-cans with them and try to convice
everybody that "you can celebrate everything". While
the hard-selling types will try to sell your their
therapy - or anti-therapy -, their new-man conditioning
- or their deconditioning.
"Just a visitor to this garden.
Never burnt, never oiled."
Let's face it like men.
It's your brain, it will
be your work to clean it.
And it will be dirty work.
> I was brought up with a bunch of women after all.
> Today it doesn't make much sense to me.
You are still Mom's good boy, aren't you?
Just crying and shouting a little so that she
(or one of the other Daddies and Moms on this earth)
may come to help you.
Why do I say so? Because it's childish to blame others.
And even if Mom wanted to help you, it's highly
questionable, wether she's able to do it.
She did her part - she created this situation for you.
Now do your part and get out of it as best as you can.
Kabir
--
Feeling stupid is a good start.
Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:53 pm
:-} cannot tolerate the shit happening in this list any longer
and are also unable to close myself against it or ignore it
when I continue to be a member.